I need to rant

[ferretfreke]

There has been some discussion on the FML (Ferret Mailing List) about prey feeding vs. kibble feeding and there are so many irritating, ignorant ppl putting their two cents in on the subject.

For those of you who haven't read it, the subject came up because someone rescued some ferrets from being fed to some snakes and the rescuer wants to try to implement laws prohibiting such a thing from happening and a prey feeder stepped in saying if this happened it might affect how she could legally feed her ferrets. Then all these ppl started writing about how appalled they are that this person could feed poor, defenseless animals to their ferrets.

How do these ppl think this is any different than the chickens or cows or whatever animal that are raised and put in their ferrets kibble?! It's driving me crazy!!! I don't want to rant on the FML because some more ignorant ppl will respond, not to mention the moderator is getting sick of the subject. I can't stand how many americans are only okay with eating meat if it is presented in a way that no way resembles the animal it used to be and then does the same to their pets.

I can understand that everyone has their limits, but don't rag on someone for doing what they feel is best for their pet especially when you are not educated on the subject. I personally feel that feeding pets kibble is like slowly poisoning them, but I don't want to burn ppl at the stake who do choose to feed their pets kibble.

While the thought of ferrets being used as feeders does make me cringe I still feel the snakes owners have the right to do so. Ferrets in nature would not escape the circle of life either.

Ahh, I feel better now. Thanks.

[sherrylynne]

I do know what you mean. That's why I usually read, but do not reply, to the vast majority of the posts

[ccretarolo]

I completely understand. The discussion was getting a little out of hand on the FML.

There's no way to excuse what the guy who was going to feed the ferrets (and kittens) to his snakes though. He openly admitted to it. But the biggest problem is that the snakes he was going to feed those poor babies to are illegal to own in the US (at least that's how I understand it).

Trying to ban feeder animals is ridiculous though. What needs to be put into law is responsible business practices for the large chains. I figure that if any store is going to sell live rodents, they need to at least have customers fill out a form. It would also help them track sales and see if small animals (especially rats and mice) are being bought more often as pets or as food/breeders. Maybe if more feeders were being bought as pets, the holier than thous would actually drop the subject.

Even though I'm a born and raised American, I've always found the North American attitude towards death hilarious. The fear of death in our culture has gone way too far. The ideology that your food shouldn't have a face is ridiculous at best. Trying to say that about cats, dogs, and ferrets is just stupid. Whenever people ask me about feeding their carnivorous pet a vegetarian or vegan diet, they get yelled at at the very least. My solid stance on the issue is that if you care so much about the "suffering" of animals, then you shouldn't own a meat eating pet.

I grew up around lots of death. My dad raised meat and dairy goats on our farm. My sister and I would watch them being born and name them shortly after (T-Bone, Ribeye, and Pork Chop were very popular). A few months later, we would see 1 or 2 of those goats being slaughtered. Trust me, we learned very quickly that those little baby goats were delicious and that them dying was a great thing.

Of course, I've known a few vegans. They all try to convert me with those PETA slaughterhouse videos. I think I've seen those things more times than most PETA members . My reaction? "Ok... Animals die so people can eat meat? I knew this already and I'm alright with it". I'm then admonished for supporting cruelty. My response to that is, if I could, I would eat free range, humanely slaughtered meat. Of course, this is way too expensive for the average consumer. For now, I'll eat the "cruel" meat (which really, while some of the things those animals go through is horrible... It's not nearly as bad as it could be). I'm not going to sacrifice a significant and tasty part of my diet just to appease some overzealous weirdos.

And that's another thing that really gets to me. Why do the people who oppose eating meat or using animal products have to be so preachy? It's offensive to me and really should be banned. How would they feel if I went around handing out "Meat... It's what's for dinner" bumper stickers and giving free samples of bacon? Actually... That doesn't sound like too bad of an idea... Even though free bacon on a large scale would require a lot of donations... Bacon fund anyone? . (Sorry... Lack of sleep+not enough caffeine yet=rambling and harebrained ideas).

In any case, I've adopted the approach of agree to disagree. I like meat and my pets have to eat it. If anyone doesn't like that, then that's their own business. I won't try to extol the virtues of eating meat to them as long as they keep their noses out of what I eat and feed my pets. Even if that food happens to still be furry and wriggling. Of course, if they give me trouble, they can expect to see my wrath. I'm not very nice when people insult my way of life with no grounds...

And now I'm going to stop rambling... My mind goes in the strangest directions in the morning...

[josiesmom]

That was me that replied about feeding my ferrets (and snake) whole live prey. Its not the first time I've posted on the FML and certainly not the first time people have considered my post controversial.

I get fed up with the ignorance of so many ferret owners and especially outraged when they insist upon grabbing a banner and beating others over the head with it!

I know full well not everyone can or will feed a natural diet. But MANY people are beginning to recognize that such a diet IS superb and at the very least are beginning to obtain the highest quality kibbles.

Feeding naturally is NOT as difficult as some would have others believe, nor is it dangerous for the ferrets. And as those who DO venture into it realize the changes in what they thought were previously quite healthy ferrets is amazing!

I did write a reply to the one foot stomper tonight. will have to see if BIG allows it to go through. I've stayed off the FML for months because of the last stupidity about actual kibble vs raw.

Seems the only thing allowed on the FML is all sweetness and light and shelter help or support for bereft ferrents. WHile that may be a large part of owning ferrets, their diet is a huge part too!

There are plenty of new ferrents frequenting the FML that are curious about proper care and with the push in human food towards natural foods, its only "natural" that pets get natural too! But there in lies the rub - what exactly IS natural? Carrots, broccoli, and wheat are all natural but have no place ina ferret's diet!

I think it behooves ALL natural feeders to educate others about the benefits of a rawand/or prey diet and to stand up against the ignorance thrown out by kibble feeders!

What do these people think ferrets ate the couple THOUSAND years BEFORE the advent of kibble?

Why are they so willing to accept the poor dental hygiene, the IBD, the gas, the distended bloated bellies, the obesity, the insulinoma, the mounds of smelly poop that go hand in hand with feeding kibble?

Don't just rant and preach to the choir - join in the exchange and voice your concerns!

Cheers,
Kim

[ferretfreke]

I figured you were the same Kim on there. I was very happy with your first, very educated, response to the snake hater lady (really I think that this is what it's mostly about, her hatred to wards snakes).

I just have very little tolerance for ppl like the foot stomper. She is so stuck on her own beliefs that she refuses to listen where someone else is coming from. I just joined the FML when Ed fell ill and turned his ferrets in, so I never saw his posts, but it sounds like her comparing you to him is a low-blow.

My concern about trying to educate others about natural feeding on the FML is those responses of ppl, like the foot stomper may completely turn others off on ever considering natural feeding. Not to mention I couldn't have wrote such a calm response like you did and still sound educated. The snake hater and the foot stomper drive me CRAZY! I'm really working on not letting them get to me. It's a waste of energy.

I may join in tho (once I figure out how to post something on there) if BIG doesn't call a stop to the subject first. Thank you for stepping in and speaking up for the natural feeders!

[wuvweasels]

How do these ppl think this is any different than the chickens or cows or whatever animal that are raised and put in their ferrets kibble?!

And what about their hamburgers, hot dogs, turkey sandwiches...
Some people just do not understand that we would not be here if it wasn't for eating and using other animals.

[nwheather]

I too, understand your frustration. I got into it with Beth, from Critter Camp, when I merely defended the benefits of feeding whole prey. She was saying that feeding live prey would make them aggressive. After she attacked everything I said, I called her on her "facts" on her website, that were incorrect. I ended up dropping it, but she took it to a full-fledged kibble vs raw/whole prey discussion. O'well. I did have some people email me privately & thank me for providing facts about raw/whole prey, so I know it was benefitial. =-)

[mustelidmusk]

Unfortunately, people do speak from ignorance and prejudice. I myself would never feed live prey because I'm too sensitive to do it - I've had mice , etc. as pets. I'm admittedly a whimp about this, but I'll dispatch a suffering animal if necessary. The biggest prblem I have with live prey feedng (and this is **MY** problem) is the predator's "learning period" with the possibility of the "unclean kill". Whimp!!! Whimp!!!!

I especially hate to see ferrets fed as prey beause they're smart, sensitive creatures that can truly develop strong emotional bonds. But, again, I'm speaking from my own biased opinions and self-imposed limitations here.

The bottom line for me is that nature tends to be cruel, and life never has a good ending (in my opinion) - nobody gets out alive. So, I don't understand being critical of other's who are NOT whimps!!!!

I simply don't read most of the fml posts because I get tired of the same old "poop".

And for all of you who choose to feed live prey, don't let the turkeys get ya down - no matter what you do in life, you'll meet with disapproval from somebody who shares a different opinion .

-jennifer

[joclyn]

it was me that replied to the nastiness and bashing. and i'll always do that - regardless of whether i know the person being bashed or not. right is right and wrong is wrong!!

regarding that situation, anyone who eats meat doesn't have the right to say anything because, they too, are guilty of being an animal eating another animal. even vegans don't have the right to say anything - they've made a choice to not eat meat.

some animals, namely ferrets and snakes, are obligate carnivores. ferrets will kill/eat or eat already dead. some snakes need to kill their food - it's just the way nature made them - so there's no choice in the matter if you have that kind of snake as a pet.

and the same with ferrets.

since they will eat already dead, it's not a necessity. it would be beneficial to them, from a stimulation standpoint, though. so, i can certainly see why people do offer live prey.

i have no problem with it either way. i don't know if i'll be at a point where i offer live prey to the ferrets. time will tell

when it comes to the 'friend' who threw a mouse in with his snake while i was there, that was about 25 years ago. i wasn't opposed to it, really, (the feeding live prey thing). it was the manner in which he did it...asked if i wanted to see it and even though i'd said no, he did it anyway. at that young age, i had little knowledge about it all and it was more a matter of the 'grossness' factor as well as being forced to watch it. (that side-show aspect).

idiots abound, folks. we just have to remember that, take most of what they spout with a grain of salt and, most of all, respond with pure facts rather than pure emotion.

facts put the imbeciles in their place.

[lnsybean44]

This topic does tend to get a bit heated. But I guess everyone has to draw the line somewhere. For me I guess it is feeding a predator to another predator (then again that definition is subjective) ... I just cant do that. I see where you are coming from Heather, I would dispatch a suffering animal if needed but I choose not to put myself in a position where I might need to (aka Im a whimp too ), esp since all my ferrets are way past the learning curve and perfectly content with frozen mice and rats, although occassionally I give them crickets to chase... But it doesnt bother me if people want to feed live so long as they are ready to step in for an "unclean kill".

But it drives me crazy when people beat each other over the head. We are each allow to have our own opinions and we each get to make our own choices.

Where can I find the FML, I keep hearin alot about it. Anything I should be worried about joining? Besides getting beaten over the head for feeding whole prey?

[joclyn]

homepage for the ferret mail list

aside from the tendency of some of those on the list to go overboard with expressing their opinions, it IS a good resource. there are people from all over the world on it (although most of the members are on this continent).

it's a good way of finding out, quickly, what's going on in the ferret world. bob church posts regularly, ifc info about seminars, shelters and big rescues (and when they run raffles) as well as medical issues like coccidia, adv or cd outbreaks. also info about shows as well as when someone needs to rehome.

the good points outway the bad. usually.

and, after all the hullaballu about the last time raw vs kibble happened and the stuff with ed, i see a lot less bashing happening. seems to me that some of those that were the worst offenders either aren't on the list now or have been informed that they aren't to bash. dunno for sure about it...

[sherrylynne]

Here's the subscription link, Insybean44:
Check it out and judge for yourself!
[e-mail]
Sorry, can't seem to make the link work. You'll have to copy and paste into an email.