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Post by whipple on Apr 2, 2009 22:49:51 GMT -5
Ok, so this is my plan "A" I am going to have bins like www.sterilite.com/ProductDetail.html?ProductId=376&Section=Storage with 2-3 females in each. I have three males already but I will not keep them in constantly. I will rotate and such. So the females get a resting period. Will the mice have any issues about the males being shifted around so much? And how do I know when to put the males in or take them out?I then plan on having a big tub like www.sterilite.com/ProductDetail.html?ProductId=79&Section=Storage for the litters to grow in. I will cull at different ages, with Dax's help of course. Hopefully he wont eat them all at once (He's an amazingly fast eater) Plan "B" Have all three males and about 9-12 females in a giant bin like www.sterilite.com/ProductDetail.html?ProductId=79&Section=Storage. I will retire the females early. I have had the males in with females before but I'm not sure about three males in with the females. Will they all fight? If so how many females can I keep per male? I will then have a second large bin to grow out litters. So any advice is appreciated. I have bred mice before, just not on a grand scale. Also, if I plan on feeding primarily mice, how large of a colony would I need?
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Post by bluedove on Apr 2, 2009 23:08:42 GMT -5
I just thought I'd mention to be careful of that hinged lid bin... If your fert can get to the box, he could potentially open that type of lid. All they have to do is get a nose under that flap and WHOOPS! No more mousies! Edit: (had more to say then I thought!) I'm also interested in seeing what people think about this... I like the idea of the harem breeding style where one male lives in with several females full time. It's less to keep track of and the females will become pregnant again asap. But then again, rotating males among several groups of females also has it's advantages. Litters should be healthier and more plentiful (in theory) and less stinky male mice to deal with. I think when you rotate them you want to leave the male in with the females for 10 days at a time to ensure that all females are impregnated. So you figure in the length of gestation + nursing + rest period to figure out how much time til the male goes back to that group. I've read conflicting info on how long you should leave a litter with the mother to nurse, and on how long they should be allowed to rest between litters... When you keep the males and females separate, there can be territory squabbles at introduction... but I think the way you decrease the likelyhood of the females attacking the males is to keep the male in a breeding enclosure and bring the females to him. Then keep them there for breeding and then move the females back to their own enclosure for the rest of the time. And from what I understand, males will kill each other over competition for females...
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Post by harrisi on Apr 3, 2009 7:26:59 GMT -5
I prefer to give a rest between litters. Much more humane IMO. Generally, females that have no rest between litters are worn down, dont produce quality babies, dont produce good sized litters and die early. I am currently trying a different kind of set up then I used to have. I have 1 male, and 5 bins. 1 bin contains 1 the male, 3 bins contain 5 females and another bin is empty for growing on. Each of the females bins are A, B and C so the females from bin A get put into the males bin, once I notice they are pregnant I move them back to their own bin (even females I dont think are pregnant..its just easier that way), then females from bin B get put into the males bin and moved back when most or all are showing signs of pregnancy and so on. Females are left with babies until 4 weeks of age then males are killed to be sent off to the petshop and females are moved to the growing on bin. After 1 week of this females from bin A are put into the males bin and we rotate them all like that. It may sound a little complicated, but its easy as pie in practice. Bluedove is right, aswell, males will kill each other in competition with females.
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Post by bluedove on Apr 3, 2009 7:46:32 GMT -5
Ok, so you leave the females in with the male until they are "showing"? So that's about 2.5 - 3 weeks? Then they birth the following week back in their own bin and nurse for the next 4 weeks... then you remove the litter and they get say a week off... So that's about a 9 week cycle, with each group of females staying with the male for about 3 weeks at a time. So by the time the "C" group is showing and moved back to their bin, the "A" group has rested for about a week and is ready to go back in with the male...
That about right? Also if you are placing the females from the litters all in one bin, how do you keep track of their age?
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Post by harrisi on Apr 3, 2009 8:53:51 GMT -5
Yup, thats about right. I can see whether they are showing or just fat around the 12-15 day mark and if most of them are showing by then, I take them out and give the male a rest to get alot of protein back to give the maximum fertility.
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Post by harrisi on Apr 3, 2009 8:56:00 GMT -5
Oh, and I keep track of their age by marking them the same colour as their tub (tub A is blue, tub B is green, tub C is red) so I know roughly what the age is at least. If I need to keep some back for breeding then I put the ones I am keeping for breeding into a seperate tub and put in the date and month they were born on an ID card and stick it to the tub.
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Post by whipple on Apr 3, 2009 21:24:25 GMT -5
I currently have three males. They are ex feeders I cannot bear to feed the ferts. So theoretically could I just put a male in a tub of females for a few weeks at a time then move them back into their own cage? Once I notice that a female is ready to pop I can put her in her own private bedroom. Then at four weeks put her in the female tub again and the female babies in another bin to grow, and feed the ferts the males. Does this make sense, do you see any problems here?
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Post by whipple on Apr 3, 2009 21:30:20 GMT -5
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Post by bluedove on Apr 3, 2009 22:09:44 GMT -5
That looks like a harem breeding style... where you leave the males and females together in one colony full time. I'm trying the same to begin with.
I've read that once males have been separated and begin to breed, they can't be housed together anymore... also females do better if left with their female cagemates full time. They form bonds and will "help" each other raise the litters, even sometimes going as far as nursing young that aren't theirs.
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Post by whipple on Apr 6, 2009 12:01:43 GMT -5
I raised mice as pets before, and I had a couple cages set up. Nothing so large as what I want now. But I kept the male in with the females constantly, and they did help. I never once had a male try to eat the babies.
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Post by whipple on Apr 14, 2009 22:07:28 GMT -5
Okay, so I found these great clear tubs, for an even greater price. I bought two. I'm also getting 9 females tomorrow or Friday. I will be putting a male in each big tub with 4 females each, and put one female in the cage with my otherwise lonely male. I'll give an update soon.
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