baby bear and monkey

[Forum Administrator]

What is in their current soup? What is in the raw soup you are working towards?

I would say that you should slowly work them onto just raw meat with eggshell. Then from there if you can afford it I would recommend getting them onto a commercial, ground raw food (this will provide them with the needed nutrients so there will not be deficiencies if they dont eat their kibble much anymore)

Hare Today, Gone Tommorow's FINE GROUND raw meat/bone/organ mixes:
www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=99855a77081f4aaeacb26062d37b835a

(You would buy 3+ types of meat (ie chicken, turkey, and pheasent, etc) plus a package of ground organs that you would feed 1x per week. Stick with the birds and the rabbit though. Beef, pork, and goat have bigger bones which dont grind fine and your ferrets might avoid eating the bone.

Nature's Variety (NV) Raw Medallions:
www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products

Contains some veggie matter, but its less then 10% of the product so its not too bad. Unlike Hare Today its vitamin/mineral fortified. Honestly, I prefer Hare Today because its cheaper and doesnt have veggies, but I hear good things about NV (and just placed my first order with them and am awaiting delivery-----De eats a ground raw diet---she's 8 years old and can't chew whole raw---bad teeth )

Stella and Chewy's Raw Patties:
www.stellaandchewys.com/site/products_cats/frozen.asp

I've heard alot of people recommend these patties, but have never tried them on my ferrets.

If these products are out of your price range, or not available to you, you can make your own ground raw mix by following this recipie:

8oz Ground raw meat (beef, turkey, pork, chicken, etc)
1tsp ground eggshell powder
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
1-2 raw chicken gizzards

I would only recommend the above recipie for SUPPLEMENTAL raw feeding though. If they are only eating this and only picking at the kibble, I'd invest in a grinder (PM Heather for more info on grinders) so you can grind your own meat/bone/organs (eggshell doesnt provide all the trace minerals that bone does...I don't recommend bonemeal because a.) its cooked and b.) it can contain lead.

Ideally, you would get your guys eating the ground raw. Then get them used to a variety of meats, and then work them onto WHOLE raw (like chicken wings). You can then choose to feed ALL raw or to supplement kibble with raw, or even go 50/50 kibble/raw. Its up to you. The main thing to bear in mind is that if they are taking a while to switch to whole raw, you'll want to get them eating a more nutritionally complete ground raw (or soupy raw) food. Thats what the above products can help you do.

[tink80]

ooh, that's not really in the budget (i posted about my financial situation last time..it's touchy with the cash side but food stamps i can buy a lot which means just meats, not anything considered pet food or doesn't take food stamps to buy). hmm..maybe i'll feed less soup and get em to eat their kibble more for now till they start accepting a variety of raw. i don't want them to be deficient.
it's 75% raw turkey with the bit of eggshell , the remaining percent is cooked chicken, a bit of mouse, babyfood, gizzards, and a few hearts. but that's only 25% of that now.
think i'll go to soup once a day for both instead of twice.

[Forum Administrator]

Here is what I'd do:

Meal #1: Kibble
Meal #2: Raw soup (using the recipie provided above----work SLOWLY to get them eating that recipie)
Meal #3: 1 mouse each

If you can get them eating those 3 meals each day, that would be the best way to ensure balanced nutrition. Will they both eat mice?

I understand money being tight. Don't worry, we'll work something out so that we can get your boo-boos onto the best diet within your means Let me know what you think of the 3 meal a day plan I listed above. If that doesnt work for you we can figure something else out.

[tink80]

okay :-)
they haven't tried mice yet except a long time ago when they'd never eaten raw and thought i was a lunatic LOL (monkey ate the tail but that was it, once it got cut open it was over..baby bear gave me a look that could kill and stalked off). i kinda just snuck it in there for fun the last batch of soup as i had one left from a snake that died (frozen arctic mice from petsmart). i slightly boiled it just in case and luckily they didn't seem to notice.
i *think* i can buy more of those frozen mice (if they pass as okay to you) on the first but not sure because christmas is coming (i have about eighty dollars after rent to buy pet needs, presents, and any toiletries, etc for the month...yikes!) so i will let you know.
i'm having trouble finding livers and hearts at the moment but there is that butcher i haven't tried of yet that i saw on an internet search thirty minutes from me. i get food stamps on the seventh (does a butcher take food stamps?) of each month but if my boyfriend is feeling generous he *may* buy me some (he bought me the turkey gizzards i saw the other day).
so i have my cooked soup, raw ground turkey, a few chicken gizzards, turkey gizzards, beef liver (leftover from another animal and been in freezer for quite awhile), raw lamb, and raw ground beef..oh and a small chicken with the legs still on, chicken breasts...
and a blender that kinda sucks , LOL. :-) (maybe i can look on freebies on craigslist for something better..)
can we whip something up out of that ? and can i add some of the cooked to it cuz i think it's the babyfood taste they are weaning off the most of which is keeping them from completely raw to be honest. i think that is what is keeping them eating the raw b/c there's still that hint of taste.
also, trying to utilize what i have to the best of my ability (disability really sucks sometimes, argh!)
we might have to get creative?

[Forum Administrator]

I am really touched by how dedicated you are to your fuzzies. Its obvious you are doing all you can to get them onto some more natural foods, despite many obstacles. You should give yourself a pat ont he back.

Dont' worry, we'll get creative. I've found that being creative can actually be a good thing.

PM me your zip code. I will do a search to see if there are any hatcheries, slaughterhouses or farms in your area that you could get cheap (or even free) scraps of meat from.

[tink80]

that would just be wonderful, giuli, me and the babies have PM'd you and they wanted to throw in a dook dook at the end but mommy hit send too fast...so virtual dooks to you from baby bear and monkey

[Forum Administrator]

I'm going to look and see what I can find. I've also asked Tss to help me out in locating a slaughterhouse near you. I'll let you know as soon as we find something

[tink80]

sounds good! no rush.
for the time being i am just cutting the soup down a bit to make sure they get more balanced nutrition by eating some kibble (evo and ng). don't want them to go backwards so still offering to them though (AFTER i see them eat some kibble first), LOL :-)

[Forum Administrator]

Here is what Tss (Maria) found for you! I hope this helps you out!

"After a couple hours of looking I dug some stuff up for her. You can tell her that if she will look at Local Harvest she can still contact farms that have eggs listed, after a year or two the layers stop laying and become "useless". And even if she goes to a place 50 miles away gas is so cheap ($1.80 or less in WA) that she will only end up spending a few dollars in gas anyways. I don't know what the laws are in WA but in VA you aren't allowed to process anything but poultry and rabbits on farm to sell so most farms don't have "scraps" but you can usually get culled stuff or extras for free or EXTREMELY cheap. I did have another resource (hunters for the hungry, they list processors) but apparently h4h isn't legal in WA.

I'll PM again if I find more

Keizer Meats (Keizer, A A Meats)
8168 Bob Hall Rd, Lynden, WA 98264-5800
Contact Phone: [phone] (6 miles from Everson)

Lynden Meat Coý -
1936 Front St, Lynden, WAý - [phone]ý (10 miles from Everson)

Cloverdale Foods Co
3605 Haggin Rd, Bellingham, WA 98226-9489
Contact Phone: [phone] (15 miles from Everson)

B & B Meat and Sausage
1401 F St
Bellingham, WA 98225 (20 miles from Everson)
[phone]ý

Hempler's-Bb Meat & Sausage
5470 Nielsen Ave
Ferndale, WA 98248 (18 miles from Everson)
[phone]ý

Island Grown Farmers Coop
13400 D'arcy Road
Bow, WA 98232
Phone: [phone] (34 miles from Everson)

git River Ranch
28778 Utopia Road
Sedro Woolley, WA 98284
Phone: [phone] (34 miles from Everson)

per Valley Farms
1000 Jason Lane
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Phone: [phone] (42 miles from Everson)

enk Packing Co , Inc (Schenk Packing Co , Inc)
1321 S 6th St, Mount Vernon, WA 98273-4919
Contact Phone: [phone] (43 miles from everson)


Andal's Custom Meats Inc
20235 E Hickox Rd, Mt Vernon, WAý-
[phone]ý (49 miles from Everson)

Farms:[/b]

Breezy Meadow Farm
810 Van Wyck Rd
Bellingham, WA 98226 (11 miles from Everson)
360-733-6742
(ducks and goats)

Samish Bay Cheese
15115 Bow Hill Road
Bow, WA 98232 (33 miles from Everson)
[phone]
(beef and pork)


Hemlock Highlands
8110 Sims Road
Sedro Woolley, WA 98284
360-856-5817 (35 miles from Everson)
(beef)

Woolley Farms
8600 B D Minkler Road
Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284
360-854-9188 (35 miles from Everson)
(Chicken, duck, lamb, pork, turkey)

[tink80]

thank you, i will look into those this week and i haven't spent my cash allowance yet so i will ask for prices and budget :-)
i really do appreciate all the work she put into this, i can't believe someone spent a few hours looking up stuff for me. THANKS!

[tink80]

by the way, i got paranoid today b/c someone passed a bit more fur (despite my yolk and lax they still pass some) so i decided to let them share a tablespoon of pumpkin (i know, i hate the sugar in it but i was worried). so to counterbalance it i thought i'd get a fairly good sized raw turkey gizzard (new to them, they've only had a small amount of chicken gizzards in a big batch of soup before) and just blend it up raw and mix it with the pumpkin.
once i got enough water for my blender to really blend it, it was a small plateful of gizzard and made the pumpkin look tiny. i have to say it was really satisfying to chop up that reddish looking meat and then get a bright pink blend liquid (it felt more "raw" to me). i added a small pinch of eggshell powder and served it up as a treat. poof..gone.
i know it wasn't all perfect ingredients but it was nice to know they'll eat that tray i got of gizzards, even with a little bribe mixed in.
it was funny, it was this hot pink orange mix when it was done, i should have taken a picture..very pretty! :-)

[tink80]

better pics of the boys eating ALL raw today!!! (deleted some from yesterday i previously posted..yesterday was the FIRST time!!!)
and yes i'll need to scrub the carpet , they like to knock things over, LOL.











(it's blended with water ground turkey and eggshell) :-)

[Forum Administrator]

Yay!!!! I'm so proud!

How are they doing? Any upset tummies?

[tink80]

first day nice, small healthy poops. second day monkey had good poops and baby bear STOLE EXTRA from his brother and so had a bit of liquid action going (eww) , LOL.

[Forum Administrator]

I'm happy to hear that everyone is having nice poops! Yay! *does happy dance*