Skunkers and Thomas J go raw!

[Forum Administrator]

If they will lick it from your finger keep doing that! Gradually lower your finger toward the bowel and eventually they'll get the hang of eating from the bowl.

Also, try feeding on a plate. Some ferrets don't like how the bowl smooshes their whiskers

Keep trying, we'll get there. Promise!

[valkyriestorm]

OMG I just made a mixture of duk soup, furo tone and raw meat and they both are eating it a bit more tonight. Skunkers went right to it after two attempts to even go near it tonight. I brought Thomas in the kitchen and put some on my finger again and he totally was licking it off, then I put his face in the plate and he stared eating it more then Skunkers was. But it did not all last to long. I wish they would eat more of it tonight. I am going to keep watching. And I did use a lower flat plate and not a bowl this time. Wow I just checked again and Skunkers totally eating it all off the plate. Awesome!

[valkyriestorm]

Some more questions. Is there any issue with them licking your face after they eat the meat? And now where do I go from here? Do i do this everynight for a few weeks? Just keep mixing or adding less duk soup?

[valkyriestorm]

Aug 24, 2008 0:37:30 GMT -5 Forum Administrator said:

Here is my raw, all natural duk soup recipie:

8 oz of chicken thigh meat (skin included)
1 tsp of crushed, ground up eggshell powder
1 chicken heart
1/2 a chicken liver
1/3 of a Nature Made Fish Oil Capsule (poke with tac and drain)

Blend together, warm (but dont cook!) slighlty and serve

Its a healthy, natural duk soup AND its a good way to transition babies to raw food

Thigh meat without the bone? So I guess I grind up the ggg shell myself right? And where can I get just chicken hearts and liver at? Can I get them from a food store or am I going to have to order those? As for the oil can I use Cod liver oil? We sell allot of different fish oils in my store.

[Forum Administrator]

Aug 24, 2008 21:31:53 GMT -5 valkyriestorm said:

Some more questions. Is there any issue with them licking your face after they eat the meat? And now where do I go from here? Do i do this everynight for a few weeks? Just keep mixing or adding less duk soup?

You can still kiss them and whatnot, just use common sense. Playing "kissy face" 5min after they just got done eating and their face is covered in blood and raw meat might not be the best idea lol However after an hour or two I dont think there would be an issue. I kiss my guys all the time (bear in mind I DO wait until its been a while since they last ate) and I have never had any issues (neither has any other raw feeders that I know of).

Now as for where to go from here.....was the raw meat blended? Ground? Chunks? Once I get your answer I can direct you from there.

As for thigh meat, you can keep the bone in there too, but you must have a suitable means to grind it very fine. If you CAN do this, then by all means include the bone.

Eggshell powder is made by (you guessded it) taking an eggshell, rinsing it out, letting it dry, and then crushing into a very fine powder (the finer the powder the better it will be absorbed by the body).

Hearts and liver can be found at local grocery stores. Depending on your area you might have to go to a less fancy store to find them. The livers come in a tub and usually run about $1.50 (atleast in St. Louis) and the hearts usually come mixed in with chicken gizzards) and that is usally about a buck-50 as well.

I don't reccomend cod liver oil because its very high in Vit-A and the liver is as well. Too much vit-A can lead to overdose. Just use any fish BODY oil supplement. I like Nature Made because they are free of dyes, preservatives, and extra crap that your ferret doesnt need.

Hope this helps. I'll wait to hear about what the consistancy of your soup is. Then I'll advise you from there.

You are doing great!

[valkyriestorm]

The raw meat I got was ground chicken meat. When I mix it with the duck soup it is pretty soupy. Thanks for the advice

[Forum Administrator]

Okay the plan is to gradually work on making it less soupy until they are just eating ground. Now, are you wanting to get them onto just the ground commercial raw, or are you wanting to work the up to WHOLE raw foods (like chicken wings)?

[valkyriestorm]

Sure I would do both if thats OK to do. Is that easier? The only thing is, I worry about is Skunkers taking the whole pieces and hiding them somwhere. He does this with cooked chicken and some other foods like kibble. I just feed them the mixture again and Skunkers is eating it all up. I put more on a bigger dish this time. Thomas is still eating less of it. He really likes it best when hes eating it off my finger. Will this ever stop?

[Forum Administrator]

Sure I would do both if thats OK to do. Is that easier?

Yes and no. I mean both involve putting food in a bowl. So IMO there really isnt one that is easier then the other.

The only thing is, I worry about is Skunkers taking the whole pieces and hiding them somwhere. He does this with cooked chicken and some other foods like kibble.

The solution to this is to feed in the cage and to provide an appropriate area for food caching. See mustelidmusk's post on feeding caves:


I just feed them the mixture again and Skunkers is eating it all up.

Good!

Thomas is still eating less of it. He really likes it best when hes eating it off my finger. Will this ever stop?

Yes, if you:

a.) Gradually lower your finger and ONLY allow him to eat from your finger if your finger is placed directly above the food plate.

b.) If you teach him that he either eats from the plate or not at all. Lower your finger slowly as he licks the food. Place your finger in the plate with the food. He *should* start to lick the food out of the plate on his own. If he doesnt, let him fast for 3-4 hours and then try again.

[valkyriestorm]

I went crazy looking in every pet store for duk soup. I was totally out of it. My store did not even have it so I bought the one I store used for the ferrets at work, because we only have one ferret left that will not eat it anyway. And we will not be getting more until Thursday or Friday. She even barks and hisses at you when she bites. Does anyone have any ideas how I can train them better at work so we dont have to send them back. I really hate to do it. But we cant sell biting ferrets. Thsi is only the second or third one we have had to send back since I have worked there and I have been there for a year and five months. And I have been bit really hard a bunch of times by them too and boy does that hurt!

[valkyriestorm]

Again how long can the raw meat be left out on the dish for them to eat before I throw it away? And how long can it be in the refrigerator after its been thawed? Last night I tried just the raw meat with a little bit of warm water and Furo Tone and Neither of them tried it. I guess there not ready yet. So tonight I just made it like I have been, and again Skunkers ate most of it. And when they are ready to eat only raw meat, do people leave kibble in the cage while they are at work? I was just wondering what people do when they will not be with their ferrets for a long period of time like that.

[Forum Administrator]

Aug 26, 2008 20:27:30 GMT -5 valkyriestorm said:

Does anyone have any ideas how I can train them better at work so we dont have to send them back. quote]

I can help you! I used to work in a petshop with ferrets. We had REALLy bad biters, one even bit a customer on the nose and HUNG from their face! NOT good (store could have been sued). The would bite through leather gloves and they'd bite through "bitter apple" drenched skin.

Want to know what I did to make them stop biting? I made sure they got out of the cage and walked around the store EVERY day. I asked my boss to set up a marshall playpen and let the kits plan in there. We put up a sign that said "we are still babies and we are learning our manners. We might bite, so please ask an employee for assistance if you'd like to hold us!" The babies would run and play in the pen (which was ALOT bigger then the cage) and then each of the ferts would get walked around the store on a harness once a day.

It was ALOT of work, but we sold more ferrets (and sold them into more responsible homes) because:

1. Ours came leash trained
2. Ours came potty trained (from being in the playpen and having a special cage set up)
3. Ours came nip-trained
4. Ours came with a packet of info on how to are for ferrets with a page long list of forums and online links (plus a book list)

I found that the ONLY reason these babies were biting was because they were soooo hyper and they were cooped up all day and as soon as they got picked up they went into tasmanian devil mode because they were DESPERATE to get out! By giving them daily time out of the cage to burn off their energy they calmed down ALOT (now bear in mind I also did the whole "scruff and no!" thing when they bit or were naughty). Adding toys to their cage, providing appropriate chew toys, and allowing daily play time all helped to calm the kits. and we never had to return another ferret ever again (atleast not as long as I worked there).

Hope this helps. Depending on where you work your boss may/may not allow you to implement the suggestions I gave (I worked in a mom/pop shop). just try to come at your boss with the idea that socializing these kits will not only prevent them from having to be "sold back" but the store will get a better rap for socializing their ferrets AND they will be better behaved (meaning more people will want to buy them).

Best of Luck

[Forum Administrator]

Again how long can the raw meat be left out on the dish for them to eat before I throw it away?

One of the Holistic Ferret Mentors (mustelidmusk) came up with this guide. I would just count finely chopped meat the same as "ground" meat. When you progress to bigger meat pieces, count it as "meat chunks":

Wet Kibble: 4-8 hours
Ground meat: 12 hours
Freeze-dried Diet (served wet) 12 hours
Commercial Raw frozen diet 12 hours
Meat chunks: 16 hours
Bone-in meat: 24 hours
Whole prey (meat exposed): 24 hours
Whole prey (no meat exposed) 36 hours
Freeze-dried diet (served dry) Over 1 week (the primary concern is palatability rather than bacterial issues)

And how long can it be in the refrigerator after its been thawed?

When you buy meat it comes with a "sell by" date on the package. Ferrets can safely eat meat that is a day or two PAST the "sell by" date AS LONG as its not stinky or going bad. When you buy meat if you put it in your fridge and dont freeze it, then feed by 2 days past the sell-by date.

If you buy meat and then put it in the freezer (to store because you wont be feeding it right away) then look at the "sell by date" on the package. How many days away is that? For example if it says "Sell by May 11th" and its currently May 9th then write a big number "4" on the package. That way when you thaw the meat (say next month) you will know that it can be in the fridge for 4 days before you need to pitch it. make sense?

Last night I tried just the raw meat with a little bit of warm water and Furo Tone and Neither of them tried it. I guess there not ready yet. So tonight I just made it like I have been, and again Skunkers ate most of it.

Slowly wean them onto just the raw meat and water, you'll have better success

And when they are ready to eat only raw meat, do people leave kibble in the cage while they are at work? I was just wondering what people do when they will not be with their ferrets for a long period of time like that.

Ferrets need to constantly eat kibble because its hard for them to digest it. In the wild a polecat doesnt eat every 3-4 hours, in fact they might not even eat every day. What most people do is they leave meat out for their ferrets while they are at work and the ferrets munch on that. as long as the house stays cool (under 75 degrees) its okay to leave whole bone-in meat out for about 24 hours.

If you feel uncomfortable doing that you can feed your ferret meals each day. For adult ferrets you can feed 1-3 meals per day. Just feed them enough food that they'll consume in that meal period, and then you can leave out a commercial freeze-dried raw food for skunkers to consume (because he's insulinomic he needs to always have food available to keep his blood sugar up. thomas however, can go without snacks in between meals)

Check out this list:

holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=raw&action=display&thread=202

to tide your babies over in case they get hungry while you are gone. Now Skunkers will need a small amount of carbs in his diet. (because he's insulinomic. Let me expalin. ferrets derive their glucose from converting amino acids and fats into glucose. Humans get glucose by ingesting carbs which are broken down into glucose. When a ferret is insulinomic their body can no longer perfom the process of breaking down the amino acids and fats into glucose, so they need to get glucose from SOMEWHERE. that is where the kibble in the carbs comes in. You dont want to feed ALOT of carbs, but i have been told by many that an insulinomic ferret can never really FULLY switch to raw. others might disagree. I honestly dont know because I've never had an insulinomic ferret. But i say better to be safe then sorry. keep a little kibble (and commerical freeze dried raw) available to skunkers to prevent seizures) Wysong kibble is reccommend by one of our mentors amyandfuzzies7. She HATES kibble but has to feed it to her insulinomic ferret, Precious. This is the only kibble she will feed. EVO is also recommended.

[valkyriestorm]

It is a MOM and Pop shop. He mainly only sells Organic/Natural foods. And we do not sell cats and dogs. He would listen to my suggestions. Ive worked there for a while now and I am probably the most knowlegable one with the ferrets in the store. And yes we do put the ferret in a Marshalls play pen everyday. And like I said we only occasionally get a biter. DOnt you think I will have a problem putting a harness/leash on a ferret that is biting?? And they are already litter trained when they come to us. And they get the most attention out of all the animals in the store. And I have been doing the "NO" and the scruffing, hissing and wearing the glove, it just doesnt seem to work. Tomorrow I am bringing some toys and treats for her. I got some ideas from another page topic here.

[Forum Administrator]

I forgot Skunkers was insulinomic so I made a few crucial adjustments to my post above (post number 27) be sure to re-read it if you have not seen my editing.