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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Jan 6, 2009 21:23:09 GMT -5
Sounds good to me! My parents are in the process of buying a duplex that my boyfriend and I will live in (the other side will be rented out). If everything goes through smoothly, I will have a garage for breeding rodents... maybe I could do mealies too!
I also found out that the pet supply store that sells me 35 meal worms for $3 is special ordering my friend containers of 1000 mealies for only $18.00... She has ferrets and bearded dragons. I'm going to have to go talk to them!
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Post by trip59 on Feb 18, 2009 1:40:53 GMT -5
Is there any guidance on how many bugs in general can be incorporated? I saw mention of 12 mealies a week being not too much, and 12 at once as a snack, but what would be excessive?
I'm raising crickets, mealies, dubia and lateralis roaches for my herps and arachnids. I was thinking about the roaches as more enrichment than diet, as they're kinda big and kinda fast and aren't cute and fuzzy like mice (I don't let the kids see mice get eaten by my herps, but they love watching crix get crunched).
I know my ratties dig mealies, but in herps, mealies are considered a bit like cheetos. Yeah, cheetos are made from corn, so they have some nutritional value, but they're mostly junk food, same with mealies. Also, do mealies have any blockage issues in ferrets like they do in some herps?
Trip
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Post by harrisi on Feb 19, 2009 12:39:40 GMT -5
Dubia roaches are great! I feed locusts, crickets, dubia roaches, meal worms and a selection of other random bugs. I feed a maximum of 5 insects per ferret per week. There isnt much concern over the amount of chitin in mealworms as in herps I also avoid morio worms.
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Post by trip59 on Feb 20, 2009 0:18:00 GMT -5
I also avoid morio worms. Why is that? Just curious. My colony was started off of several tubs of Armstrong's Giant mealworms, living on non-medicated chick feed and some magic roach food I got the recipe for on another board. I use it to load all my bugs for my other critters, they love it and grow like mad on it (the bugs) Just wondering, where'd the 5 insects number come from and is that based on size/age of the ferret? Sorry for the overly obsessive questions, some sort of personality quirk, I just have to know as much as I can about whatever I'm talking about, might be why they call me doctor Trip before I even started my doctorate Trip
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Post by harrisi on Feb 20, 2009 5:12:05 GMT -5
Morio worms are meal worms that are fed/sprayed with a chemical to stop them pupating and turning to beetles and instead they grow to be "Morio worms" however they are "Meal worms". Does that make sense? lol. So as nobody really know the effect it can have on animals other then lizards, I tend to stay away from them. They are also no good for breeding, if I wanted "morio worms" I would just pop meal worms in the fridge and let them grow. The 5 insects number is based on age, size and activity level. Kits get 2 or 3 adult locusts because the locusts contain alot of energy and adults are about the right size to "hunt" down so they keep the kits interested. For an adult I tend to stay with 1 sub-adult locust and dubia roaches and meal worms, neither of these contain tons of energy and they keep the attention of the ferrets well, especially the dubia roaches and the roaches are extremely easy to breed. I find keeping 5 at a guideline worked well for me, but it also depends on what size/age insects you feed.
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Post by trip59 on Feb 20, 2009 10:39:19 GMT -5
Both mealworms and superworms (morio worms) are larval forms of darkling beetles, however, there are multiple species of darkling beetle, just like there are many species of ladybugs, many species of rats, many species of grasshoppers, etc.
Mealworms are Tenebrio molitor whereas superworms are Zophobas morio. the Z. morio are a larger species overall, with a larger egg size and larger beetle, not just larger larvae.
T. molitor, native to North America, when kept in the fridge enter a semi-hibernation but it's really just a slowed metabolism, ready to be awakened by even the heat of a finger picking them up. They will in time pupate or die, even in the fridge. Room temperature, T. molitor pupate rather fast, alone or in groups, the speed dependent on temperature and food, but from larva to beetle has been taking about 2 weeks once the process starts in my colony.
Z. morio however, is from a different region, native to Central America and South America and are not refriedgerated because being a tropical species, the cold kills them outright. Aside from the distinct size difference, the other most notable difference is that they will not pupate if in groups, regardless of food or temeperature. Z. morio must be separated and placed in the dark in order to start pupating. It is possible this is an evolutionary trigger to keep them larval while there is food and once they spread out in search of food they turn into adults to be able to travel greater ranges, just supposition, I haven't seen detailed research on that aspect.
No chemicals involved in either species though, and one or two generations bred in the colony the chemicals would be gone either way. One reason herpetologists don't feed Z. morio more often is the high chitin levels in the exoskeleton and the fact they are more powerful and more likely to bite back.
Trip
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Post by harrisi on Feb 20, 2009 16:50:29 GMT -5
Huh? Morio worms are often another name for "Giant" Mealworms (genius lol) that are sprayed and fed to stop them pupateing and turning to beetles.
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Post by trip59 on Feb 20, 2009 17:07:16 GMT -5
Those giant mealworms are the T. molitor and are treated with an insect growth hormone to delay pupation.
I guess if there's a concern over the treatment, then either standard mealworms or superworms (Z. morio) should be used, but the Z. morio are a distinct species from the T. molitor.
I do apologize, I just checked the tubs and mine are the standard mealworms, not the giants from Armstrong, I was thinking of something else when I typed that.
Trip
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Post by harrisi on Feb 20, 2009 17:09:06 GMT -5
Ah I see now. I thought they were a different species but tons of reptile shops have them listed as the same species.
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Post by trip59 on Feb 20, 2009 17:19:26 GMT -5
Sorry, my writing giant at the beginning probably didn't help the matter... Regional and local names (coke, pop, soda, etc.) can get confusing. In dealing with the arachnids and my other entomological exploits, we tend to stick to the scientific names because of the confusion. One local shop sells superworms that are labeled giant mealworms, and are the treated T. molitor another sells the Z. morio as superworms and the treated as mealies, yet another sells them as they actually list them on wholesale sites, as mealworms, giant mealworms and superworms. In dealing with certain herps and arachnids people avoid the Z. morio because they're heavier exos and bite bigger... but if you're avoiding the ones for the hormones, than both the regular small mealies T. molitor and superworms Z. morio should be ok, just skipping the treated T. molitor or giant meal worms, yes? (I think I just confused myself Trip
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Post by harrisi on Feb 20, 2009 17:40:25 GMT -5
Yup, got it. I tend to use scientific names for food insects aswell but sometimes the shop owners look at me like I am mad, Lol.
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