Hershy and JD switching

[mustelidmusk]

Your kids may be settling down a bit with their food. My kids go through an initial Piggy stage in the early Fall. They pack on a bunch of weight then and start to back aff a bit - otherise, they'd probably pop before Thanksgiving .

My kids usually have 2 days per week where they eat lighter for a 24 hour period. If they seem to be picky for a meal, then I give freeze-dried foods only for the next meal, and a light fresh rea meal for the following meal or two. If they're getting picky, just feed them light meals for a couple of days.

Feed the bones first and let them get hngry!!! You may need to withold a few meals as long as they're plump and healthy.

JD is probably fine, but I know what you mean about being "ferrenoid" I'm the same way.
Please let me know how the bloodwork goes.

Yes, the fish does have calcium. The bone meal is intense stuff, so if you're feeding bone and fish with bone, be sure to go lighter with the bone meal.

I'm still working on the taurine amounts and bone meal as well. It will probably spill into the weekend since I'm work 14-hour days again

Be persistent with the bones - they'll pick it up!!!

-jennifer

[suds]

they have slowed down quite a bit on eating, Playing as normal so I guess they reached there peak and there systems are or have adjusted. Still get some funky poo's at times but no where near like they where the first week (thank god) . They seemed to love the hen even some of the bones was eaten I think by JD. This morning they ate smelts and a little beef . the fish was tgone befor I left for work even the bones! but some beef was left over though I think I still need to cut back some more on the amounts . tonight I am going to only put in chicken knecks cut about a half inch peaces in length and split them down the middle and do the same thing tommorrow morning and night and see if that will get them to crunch on them better . so far they eat any meat chuncks I give them .No protesting from Hershy at all .
I got some beef kidney's I will try them tomorrow night they should be hungry there really is not much meat on the knecks . they still womt eat any liver and it is a pain in the butt to cut it in small enough peaces to hide in the meat chunks so hopefuly kidney's will be another source.
If I cant find some organs they will eat alone then I think I will have to feed a little organ each day instead of haveing a organ day once a week. I think it would much easer to keep track of how much each one is eating if I can do a organ day rather then trying to hide it in meat and wondering if they both are getting enough.

I still have not heard from the vet yet about JD as soon as I do I will let you know .

have a great and safe holloween

[mustelidmusk]

Have you tried different kinds of liver? (if you've tried beef liver, then try chicken liver instead.) Will your kids eat freezze-dried liver? that may be a way to get them used to the taste, an then they'll be less freaked out by the wet liver.

Here's another thought regarding bone... If they're getting bone meal, they may not want bone. There's theory that animals tend to gravitate toward what they need in their diet.

For oe meal each day, offer smaller chunks of the neck with bone. lo off er a small amount of liver. don't give them any meat chunks unless they eat the bony chunks and livers first. The following meal, you can offer some raw meat chunks after you've given them a chance to eat some bone.

It might help to smash the bones up a bit as well So, every other meal, should be a mostly bone meal to get them eating bone.
I had to withhold food to my kids to start working on the ones. Back bones are very soft, and you care slice then into strips with a crummy knife that you don't care about. Or use a hunting knife.

I offer small bis of bone by hand, and the brats will eat them. I basically got my kids to eat the bones by giving them small kibble-sixed bits of the bone ends in the palm of my hand. If they spit the bone out, I stuffed back into they mouths. They finally started eating bone one day!

Also, if you get them munching on bone, the poops will improve too.

Keep up the good work!!!
-jennifer

[suds]

I have wierd ferts they love to give me a hard time on something. I tried beef ,chicken,turkey and deer liver fresh, and i tried beef , chicken and turkey liver freeze dried and they will not touch it, but they will eat Heart, gizzards and now beef kidney's (at least they ate them lastnight). The only way they will eat any live is if I cut it (use scissors) in peaces smaller then a pee and I split the meat and stuff the peaces inside the meat like sandwich of sorts.
The good news is they started to eat the bone on the knecks I see Hershy munching on a paece now I only use the bone meal when I feed only meat chunks. I tried egg again this morning JD went to town Hershy thinks its poison still she is so very silly !
I have a mouse in the fridge thawing out to my Moms dismay. I guess I should have warned her it was in there she woke me up with the scream of death lastnight lol She is very afraid of mice . So we will see if they will eat it this time around. .

[mustelidmusk]

Your poor mom!!!!

That's great about the bone!

As you already know, offer the liver/bones first.

It's not wierd that ferret would not be as interested in liver - the texture is very different...chicken livers are almost watery - and liver stinks!!! I can relate tou your ferts...I'd rather find a mouse in the fridge than a liver

You cant try the freeze-dried crumbs coated on smaller bits of liver. You could also serve small bits of finely chopped meat and liver together and increase the amount of liver over time. feed the liver/meat mix first, of course.

it's also ideal to match the organ meat type with the mt type you're serving - if you're feeding chicken, serve chicken organs when possible.

Hand feeding and tug-of-war with liver can help as well....liver can be squishy and dfficult for aferret to pick up if the chunks are too small pick up but too big to easily lick up.

I thin your kids will get the bone eating mastered without too much trouble. Another thing...liver is one organ meat - they won't need a ton of it, so if you're giving it daily, give it sparingly. If there's any truth to the theory that animals will eat what's missing from their diet, they could be getting more liver than they need , which would make them less interested in eating more liver.

Keep up the good work!

-jennifer

[suds]

they ate the whole mouse !!! I could not even find a stray peace of fur lol I will still work on the liver they did eat the kidney so I am half way there. i gave them small chicken wings lastnight and cut thme partialy and alot of the bone was eaten I am going to try the small drumsticks tonight I will cut them partialy like i did the wings and see how they do. they are the size of my thumb so should be easy for them to eat. I guess soon I will need to figure out a schedule hopfuly they continue progressing on the bones

[mustelidmusk]

on the mouse!!!!!!!

Thats GREAT news!!!!

As for the bones... my brats learned on the chichen backs if you can get them. they have very little meat, and they as soft and easier to eat than necks (at least for my brats. ) I just ct them into strips with kitchen scissorrs. Bones just take practice - same with the livers. As with everything, start small and work up to larger pieces - I suspect the liver thing is more texture than taste!

Apoloogies for being MIA - work again - I haven't even been on line. I'm hoping this project wraps up soon!
-jennifer

[suds]

I understand being busy and not haveing much time to be online

I got the news from the vet about JD it was negative which is great news now I know he is just hyper lol. I asked the tech about the the testing she told me she thinks they do it 2 times a month they send out the test evry 2cnd and 4th monday of the month and normaly get the results back with in a week or 2 at the most. She also mentioned its rare to get a negative test she said the magority come back as ether inconclusive or positive so I was lucky no quessing about it.

so they ate the tiny chicken legs and most of the bone after I cut them length wise . I been giveing them meat chunkcs in the morning every other day with a little liver hid in the meat .at night they get rmb they are getting better it seems with the bones they are trying but seems Hershy cant eat them unless I cut them lengthwise and no bigger then 1/2" peaces I think she will take a while to gain the strength and learn how to eat them bigger. JD (he is the man) has no problems.

I cut back on useing the bone meal I sprinkle a little dusting on the meatchunks every other day when I put the tiny peace of liver in the meats. there poos seem to be fine now so far just the colors changes but they get dieffernt kinds of meat each day soon I will be able to tell what they ate from the color I think lol.

I am wondering since feeding them meatchuncks (now about 1") in the morning and rmb at night and sneeking liver in every other day ( liver is very tiney about as thin as a dime and 1/3 the size) if this could be a good compleete diet and schedule instead of haveing individual days ? they are getting gizzards and other freeze dried treats as snacks in there forraging cups and hidden for enrichment.
I have a friend looking into some farms in delaware for me to find a good source for more types of ofal for them. hopeing to find a small slaughter house who will save them for me.

[suds]

so lastnight I tried rabbit they sniffed it for a bit then JD tried it so of cource Hershy had to try it lol. I swear it was like watching parana afterwards the rabbit dispeared very fast I think they love rabbit lol. they even ate most of the bone !! only the back legs and i think hip bone where left.

I just put a ordor in at rodent pro .my poor mom is gonna flip when she see's all the frozen mice lol the brats better eat them

I was thinking a shedule something like this
Monday morn chunks of meat evening chicken wings , legs
tues morn meat chunks with liver hidden evening turky or chicken knecks
wens morn, meat chunks evening smelts or sardines (whole)
thurs morn meat chunks with hidden liver evening cornish or game hen quarters
fri morn rabbit what ever is left over from the week at night
sat. whole prey (mice, baby chicks)
Sun fast? they seem to fast themselves at leat 1 day a week I mite just put wysons A1 out for that day and night

they eat the following meat so far
chicken
beef (they ate many differnt cuts of beef )
pork (again many differnt cuts)
veal
deer
lamb
rabbit
game hen / cornish hen
mice
smelts
sardines

ofal
chicken gizzards (they love them)
chicken heart
turky gizzard
turkey heart
beef kidney
will not eat any liver unless its hidden in meat chuncks

let me know what I am missing please I like the ideal of rmb's at night they are confined to there cage and chew on them all night.
at least 2 days I sneek liver in , and give them the gizzards, beef kidneys and hearts as snacks a couple times a week with the whole prey and fish is this to much ofal?
is there enough bone or too much feeding it every night ?

I have to say I am very happy and impressed how fast they are comming along now Hershy seems to be getting better each day with eating bigger peaces of meat and bone but she lets me know when they are to big lol JD I think would not care if I threw a whole cow in there he will go to town lol.

[mustelidmusk]

Hi!

Great news about JD's blood tess !!!

It sounds like they're getting better on the bones if the rabbit as any indication on how well they're doing!

How are they doing on the liver? Yes, you can go ahead and feed organs daily.

And I feed freeze-dried only one day per week as well - the freeze-dried Archetypal I and Stella & Chewy's are balanced. If you feed a balanced diet daily, you'd need feed according to the following percentages each day:

4 parts rmb (raw meaty bones are half meat, half bone)
2 parts meat chunks without bone
1 part organ meats (approx. 1/4-1/3 liver and the rest is other organs)


So, a day Might look like this depending on how much your kids eat....

Morning: (6 ounces of food for the two kids together)
----------
4 ounces of meat chunks
2 ounces of organs (a little less than an ounce of that should be liver)

evening: (8 ounces of food for the two kids togther)
----------
8 ounces of raw meaty bones

The key is to maintain the 40%-20%-10% percentages

Addiional Guidelines
------------------------------
*Meats- Atleast 3 different meats per week is *required* - More is ideal

*Cuts/parts- feed more then JUST chicken wings (for example) feed thighs, and legs as well. For boneless meat, feed different cuts: pork shoulder vs pork loin (for example)

*Ages- feed a variety of "ages" of meats. So for example beef/veal, mutton/lamb, chicken/cornish game hen, Pork/piglet, Turkey/Poult

* When possible, feed organs/bones/meats all from the same type of animal. stick with bones from anmals no larger than rabbit or chicken

So, what you need to do is figure out a regular schedule for one week using meats you know you can get easily....keep this basic schedule fairly simple with 3 types -4 types of meat, readily availble organ meats, etc. You can swap in different meats whenever you want to provide more variety, but the goal is to understand the minimum schedule you need to follow in case your schedule get outta control like mine is right now

Here's an example:
-------------------------------------------------
Monday:
AM 1 part Organs: turkey livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: turkey meat
PM 4 Parts RMB: turkey neck and chicken thighs

Tuesday:
AM 1 Part Organs: Beef liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: Beef (or veal)
PM 4 Parts RMB: 1/2cornish game hen

Wednesday:
AM 1 part Organs: chicken livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: chicken meat chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: chicken wings and thigh

Thursday:
AM 1 Part Organs: turkey liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: lamb or pork chunks (or rabbit chunks)
PM 4 Parts RMB: trukey neck, Chicken thighs (or rabbit/bones)

Friday:
AM: 1 Part Smelts & sardines
AM: 2 parts Wysong Archetypal I
PM: 4 part Adult Mice and Wysong Archetypal I
(OR all Wysong's)

Saturday:
AM 1 part Organs: Chicken livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: lamb or pork chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: Chicken legs (or rabbit/bones)

Sunday:
AM 1 Part Organs: Beef liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: lamb or pork chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: chickn wings, thighs


raw egg once a week
list all your other items here and indicate which category (RMB, organ, or muscle)

It's also improtant to make sure you're feeding 50% bone and 50% meat as a raw meaty bone. Notice that when wings are fed, I usually put a thigh with them since wings are mostly bone and thighs are mostly meat.

You'll want to change this example to make it work best for you. You'll find a schedule is very useful for keeping things balanced, and you can swap things in and out as you get variety....BUT making a simple schedule that works is essential for when things get hectic.

As always, please let me know if you haveany questions!
-jennifer

[suds]

Thanks Jen !!
You broke down a schedule perfect for me and them . I am glad I can feed tiney bits of liver each day then and I wont have to fight Hershy on a organ day , she will eat the liver if its in the meat chunks but not on its own but I will stil always try to get her to eat it alone maybe in time she will .

Egg is a problem Hershy will not touch it to soupy for her is it a must to have in there diet ? I do give her samon oil and olive oil she loves them so its given as a treat at night when they get caged I dont give them both at the same time lol I put a few drops on the pogo's or antler treats and sometime give it to them with my finger. I never have to round them up they know they get a great treat and run to the cage quickly on there own when I tap on it lol.

just to be sure when I feed them rabbit they do eat quite a bit of the bone to so it it can be concidered RMB ? I been getting small rabbits and cut it in half and gibvethem a half at feeding so far it seems to be the perfect amount ofr them. same as the cornish hens and game hens they also can be concidered RMB too ? I just want to make sure they get the correct amount of bone.trying to find a variaty of rmb instead of just chicken and turky parts.
They do get a diffent type of meat each day so thats not a problem.
I plan on giveing them hole prey at least once a week with the fur and or feathers I should not have to feed them pumkin now once a week for blockage maintnence now ? the fur will do the job instead I think ?

its getting down to the wire now they have been very impressive the past month ano far they have come and now are eager to take on most food challenges i give them only a few setbacks or problems the past few weeks so I want to make sure I am feeding them properly now I think I will post what I feed them starting tomorrow each day on here so you can review it and catch any problems . I would love to get some photo's of them eating but they Both refuse to eat in the open and will only eat in there soda box and its impossible to get a pick of anything other then there butts lol.

thanks again for all your help its always very much apreaciated

[suds]

this morning they got 2 handfulls of beef chunks from beef soup cubes. 6 peaces of beef kidney's ( about pinky tip size) only a few peaces of beef was left
tonight I gave them 2 chicken wings and a leg with thigh.

[mustelidmusk]

As for the bone, the bone should be from smaller animals - some turkey bones can even be too big. So, no pork, beff, venison bones, etc. The thing to remember is that an ideal serving of RMB's will be half bone and half meat. For example, if you're feeding a chunk of a chicken back, which is mostly bone you can throw in the amount of boneless meat to make the RMB serving contain half bone and half meat. You just estimate how much more meat you need to add to gat that half and half ratio.

And of cousre, the meat chunks part of the diet are muscle meats only - no bone required.

Egg is NOT required. In fact, it's very seasonal in the diet, and it does not represent a large amount of natural diet. Most ferrets enjoy it...and I'm thinking thta you may want to work on getting Hershy to eat soup by starting with chunks and slowly working "backwards" in the direction of soupier .

As for liver, you can "hide" it, but keep working toward getting them to eat larger bits over time.

If you feed a bit og olive and/or fish oil daily, I doubt you need to feed pumpkin, although you may want to feed a little during shedding season. I don't bother - the oil helps move the fur through. If you feel as though you want to feed more oil (like during shedding season) but you don't want to overfeed the salmon oil because it contains a lot of vitamin A, then you can serve the fish and olive oils together. This is a good way to get the oil into them without overdoing the vitamin A. My kids get the equivalent of 1/2 to 1 gel cap of fish oil per ferret 4 - 5 times per week.

As far as pictures go - butt pictures are great too...if a ferret stays still long enough for a picture, it means that they're really into enjoying their meal

Sounds like a good plan, we'll practice and see how this goes , and after a bout a week of practice, I'll have Giuli check what you've been doing and make any recommendations she may have. Since I feed mostly "balanced foods'/commercial products, it's good for somebody who has been feeding RMB/prey to do the final tweaking,. Giuli may also want to see them eating liver chunks... but I suspect they'll adapt to larger bits over time.

Have fun, and I look forward to watching you practice on the schedule - this is very exciting when ferrets start to really DEMAND a healthy diet! And look at little Hershy go...I remember when you never thought you'd see this day!!!

-jennifer

[suds]

lastnight they ate the wings even most of the bone , the thigh was eaten but very little of the leg was eaten mite have been to much for them or to big I did cut slits in it to make it easer.
this morning I gave them 8 sardines when I first woke up and they where gone before I left for work so I gave them 4 smelts and wysons A1 the smelts where gone and they only ate a little of the wysons ( there poo was very loose and stinky from the fish I hope) but I can handle it 1 day week lol.
tonight I will give them wysons and put some of the freese dried chicken livers I made in there . I dont have the mice or chicks yet .

[suds]

lastnight befor bed I threw the left over lag and thigh I split the leg down the middle length wise it was 90% gone this morning . they did not eat any of the freeze dried livers.

this morning I put a hand full of veal peaces with turkey livers hidden inside them with a handfull of gizzards and chicken hearts. they ate all the veal (hershy loves it even with the liver in it ) and most of the hearts and gizzards through out the day.

tonight I will give them half a rabbit with bone.

I never measured with a scale I just grab what looks to be about the rite amount I am guessing they eat about 2 once and a half per meal sometimes less sometimes a little more I got it to the point now that there is very little left after a 8 hour or so peroid. sometimes they seem to eat less or very little and other times they cant get enough so its still a adjustment to guessing when theese days come .
But now they are running to me and actually dooking when they see the food tray in my hands its so funny to see them so excited to see what they are getting. and not just corious as before.