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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 31, 2008 9:17:45 GMT -5
BREAKTHROUGH!!!  Boris found Sinnead's drumstick from the other day(I couldn't, she stashed it well!). He refused to let her have it back! He ate most of it! Then I got him, tried kibble-sized fresh pork from a spoon on my lap, and he ate all of it! He then graduated to 1/2 inch pieces, and ate all of them, even started going under the kitchen chair to eat, then coming back for more!!! I am so proud of my boy! I just can't believe how happy this actually made me. |
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 31, 2008 10:37:19 GMT -5
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 31, 2008 12:23:05 GMT -5
Question about calcium. If I can get them on the MBO frozen meats 3X a week, do they need extra on the regular meals? And if they do(I'm using egg shell), how much per meal? The meat for the four of them is in one dish. I haven't been able to get them to eat an egg yet, with or without shell.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 31, 2008 14:40:52 GMT -5
1. Are we talking about just for the switching process, or are we talking once they are fully switched? When they are fully switched the goal is to get them eating BONE (which has more minerals then just eggshell). During the switch, though eggshell is fine/good to use. 1tsp per 8oz of meat. You can feed it daily.
2. What is MBO frozen meat?
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 31, 2008 22:30:09 GMT -5
Meat, bone, organ, all chopped together, frozen raw. That's how it's listed in the pet store I go to for it. If I can ever get them to go for it! So far, rabbit and elk are both a write-off. Even my raw fans(Lucrezia and Sinnead will hardly touch either. And forget about either Boris or Vincent. I think I can get chicken and beef. I'll try with those to get them used to it!
If they are eating this 3X a week(cost factor- but I want to do it for variety), and they get chicken once or twice a week, do they need eggshell on the other days?
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 1, 2008 8:21:41 GMT -5
Guess who was first into the raw dish today ? You got it- Boris! I'm so proud of my boy! Ladies and Gentlemen...I think we are almost kibble-free! |
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 2, 2008 8:23:34 GMT -5
Well, it's been just over a month and a half, and I think I can safely say ALL the fuzzies are safely on raw ! Even two of my cats are trying to eat the meat I put down for the fuzzies (I just cut extra, of course!). Now, all I need to do is get them used to the idea of sharing the same piece of meat, so I don't have to chop everything so small all the time, and even if they don't want to do that, I'm not overly concerned. Today, I pick up the Wysong's, and I will start putting that in their cage, along with whatever fresh is left over from the meals. It's really quite funny watching them. Each grabs a piece, runs to his/her favourite eating spot/den. They either eat, or stash. Then Boris will run from den to spot, and back, stealing everyone else's stash, and putting it in his own, or else eating it on the spot. Last night, I cleared out his stash, and put the new meat on a dish. He picked up each and every piece, and took it all back to where he had it, then carried on with his meal from the other dens . I still can't believe he turned the corner to raw so abruptly. From fighting at one meal, to devouring it the next. Wow! |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Sept 2, 2008 18:22:42 GMT -5
I'm very proud! this is great! so is everyone eating bone too, or just the meat chunks? Can you post a sample schedule of what they are eating (roughly/approx) each week? That way I can let you know if you need to make any tweaks. Look how far you've come! This is awesome! |
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 2, 2008 19:09:00 GMT -5
Yes, it is pretty amazing how they can be very picky for the longest time - and then all of the sudden, they can't live without the meat!!! The Wysong is good even if it's just a treat. The reason why I like to offer it (even though it's expensive) is that I hate it when my kids stash raw - and if you need to travel and leave the ferret's behind, it's a lot easier to get somebody to check on them since you can simply leave lots of Wysong's out in bowls without the worrying about spoilage. If they stash some dried foods, it just gets eaten later.  No more daily hassels Boris and the soup You'll need to start thinking about putting together a feeding schedule that has all the stuff you'll be feeding. All kids need to be eating muscle meat, bone , organ meats, and a variety of meat sources. SInce I feed commercial diets, I want to double-check the percentages of meat, bone, organs. Once we get your tentaive schedule together, you may want to try it out for a week or two to see if it works for you - and all the kids are sticking to the plan. When you're comfortable, we can have Giuli approve the schedule and make recommendations. Once all this is done, you officially graduate. If you want to add whole prey to the diet, I think you read the postings in that section and ask questions. This is all so exciting!!!!  -jennifer |
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 2, 2008 23:44:44 GMT -5
I don't have a set schedule yet, though I can see how it would be handy. I'm not sure of the percentages yet to the raw frozen I'm trying, I'll go to the pet store to find out. For here, right now I'm leaving chicken backs and necks in the cage most nights. They get wings 2X a week. Pork, boneless, 2X a week. Ground turkey, boneless, 1X a week. Beef, both ground and regular(ie: cheap cuts, boneless)1-2X per week. I usually cut up 2-3 hearts to mix in various meals 2-3X per week. Since they refuse beef liver(chicken liver is hard to find here as most giblets are sent to the mink farms), they get dehydrated liver treats(approx. 1" piece, cut up small, as cage treats) 2-3X per week. This can vary according to what I grab out of the freezer.
I know all this is a jumbled up mess, but I really haven't considered a schedule as of yet. And amounts given are for all four ferrets.
Should I try to get them to try the elk and so on again? Like I said in my post, even Lucrezia and Sinnead had no interest. Do you think it might be because of the bone and organ mixed in? Or should I stick with the stuff I'm preparing here?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 3, 2008 22:39:31 GMT -5
Hi!
Here is what most people on this site are doing....
Raw meaty bones 4 days a week (chicken wings, legs, etc)
boneless meats 2 days a week (chunks of beef, pork, lamb, etc)
organ meats 1 day per week (liver, hearts, gizzards, etc)
Here are a few examples of such feeding schedules(I got these from the archives section for ferrets that have already graduated.
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Monday: Lamb chunks, with Cornish hen
Tuesday: Chicken livers, Hearts, and Gizzards,
Wednesday: Chicken wing sectioned Also some chunks of thigh meat.
Thursday: Pork chunks, and a wing tip
Friday: Cornish Game hen
Saturday: Lamb chunks, with Cornish game hen portion
Sunday: Pork Chunks and chicken thigh meat
*******
My kids like to eat rmb at night, so I feed meat in morning rmb at bedtime.
Monday - chicken breast, wings
Tuesday - cgh, chicken thigh rmb
Wednesday - organ (liver, heart, gizzard), cgh rmb
Thursday - pork/lamb, wings
Friday - turkey/beef, chicken thigh rmb
Weekend - any of above, rmb
occasional mouse for treat/enrichment
raw egg once a week
other organs as available
*********
I recommend that you design a tentative schedule made up of they things you can easily get and things you know your kids will eat. Once you get this going you can swap out some items with new equivalents for variety. For example, try kidney for an organ meat once in a while. Try rabbit (with bone) for a raw meaty bone day, etc.)
If you are feeding some "complete balanced" foods such as whole prey, wysong archetypal I, etc., your approach will vary depending on how you want to offer these complete food. For example, adding a little wysongs daily as snacking foods won't really affect the 7-day per week schedule. If you add a complete diet, one day per week, then you may end up with and 8-day schedule (more difficult to follow). Giuli may have better recommendations since I feed nearly all complete diet with some treats.
Just take a stab at designing this, and start feeding your kids with what youve come up with. I'll get Giuli to review everything and make recommendations so we get this all balanced out.
Another recomendatin from Giuli......
Its always good to feed a variety of:
1. Meats (which I see you are starting to do, so excellent!)
2. Ages (adding in veal/beef, lamb/mutton, chicken/cornish game hen, etc) is great because as an animal ages its nutrient composition changes. Providing a variety of ages ensures maximum nutrient diversity.
3. Cuts (dont get the same cut of meat each time. Take advantage of sales ) Get pork steak one time, pork butt another. Get chicken wings one time, chicken legs another. Nutrient composition varys in the various parts of the animal, so its good to switch up the parts you feed.
Please let me know if you have questions about this.
-jennifer
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 3, 2008 22:52:45 GMT -5
Ok. Only problem is, Calgary is considered a wealthy city, and everyone charges accordingly; veal-$25-$28 per kilo, cgh-$8-$10 each, lamb-$26 per kilo, cannot get mutton anywhere, or chicken livers, chicken gizzards rarely. Quite frankly, it's less costly to buy the raw frozen pet diet. Given this, I'll try to work something out by the weekend. Weekdays are too crazy to sit down with this. And thanks for all the suggestions. It gives me a better idea of what to work with, rather than catch as catch can  . |
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 4, 2008 0:36:27 GMT -5
The raw frozen pet diet is fine as long as it's a complete, balanced diet that has (muscle meat, organ meats, bone) and does not have too much fiber. If you have the ingreiednts list and the analysis, we can take a look at it. I feed almost all commercially prepared diet. In fact, at the Buckye Bash, Bob Church stated in his presentation that he's not in favor of feeding BARF (Bones and raw flesh) diets unless its a nutritionally complete/analyzed diet. In fact, I'll be more specific about what Bob said ...he recommend avoiding the raw meaty bones approach because he feels it will not guarantee a good balance - too risky. I chose commercial raw 3 years ago beacause I'm paranoid about balance as well....a commerial raw diet is balanced for every bite eaten.....if you feed raw meaty bones, how do you know if one of your kids is eating the proper amount of the various items?  One ferret may be eating all the bone! That's why i feed comecial raw (Plus my husbad would flip if I put dead mice in the freezer ) I recomend that you get the info on the diets available and the type of feeding regimen you want to try. many of the frozen raw diets are quite good - as is the archetypal I. Many vets advocate commecrial raw diets, so it's nothing to hy away from. Here in the States, the commercial diets are ususally more expensive than raw meaty bones!!! Plus, you can still feed some of the other goodies as treats or special meals! Go for it, and lets see what we can come up with! -jennifer |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Sept 4, 2008 14:48:48 GMT -5
I'm biased and will recommend raw meaty bones (or whole prey) over a commercial raw diet, simply because with the commercial diets:
1. grinding reduces certain nutrients
2. grinding eliminates the teeth cleaning benefits of raw
I tell people that if they want to feed a raw diet based on the prey model, but they want to include the ground commercial raw, feed it on the 2 days of week for boneless meats.
I can see why having the commercial raw is a nice "safety net" for keeping the diet balanced, but I really feel that it should be a supplement and not the majority of the diet. Jennifer and I might have different opinions, but its up to you sherrylynne to decide what YOU feel is best. There is no "right" answer. Just what works for you and your kiddos. What benefits do you want to exchange for what risks? Its all a matter of personal choice.
Sorry if this confuses you, but I think its important to look at all your options before deciding something.
Either way, when you figure out what you want to do, just let us know and we'll work with you from there. You are not obligated to pick "my" way just because I'm the admin, but I AM obligated to tell you MY opinion, so you know all the options out there and whatnot.
Good luck!
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 4, 2008 18:41:41 GMT -5
Ok, a couple questions. With the raw frozen, I tried the rabbit, and then the elk. No one would touch either, even though they will eat chicken, pork, beef, etc. Should I keep pushing with the wild meats(I know they are domesticated, but just for reference purposes)? I imagine it's the same as getting them on raw in the first place? Also, by raw meaty bones, I imagine you mean chicken, turkey, and other fowl? What other meaty bones can they eat, if any? Because although at some point I might consider frozen whole prey, now is not that time. And I could never feed live. Maybe I'm a wuss, but I cannot kill anything beyond a mosquito or fly, and the idea of having to kill an injured animal, although the most humane thing to do, is not possible for me.
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