Boris, Vincent, Lucrezia and Sinnead go raw!

[mustelidmusk]

OK, I went back and re-read my post... adding small amounts of liever, heart, kidneys, gizzards, and finely ground egg shell will add some more different nutrients to the soup.

You need to be careful to not overfeed liver. (I feed no more thatn 1 chicken liver per ferret each week. (It can be spread across the week - the potential issue is overloading on vitamin A.). Of course you'll start out adding tiny pieces to the soup. But I'd offer some small bites plain as well - at least to see if they'll eat it. They just might try it!

N-bones are junk food anyway! The best thing for chews would be the wing segments. Raw hides might cause issues - possible obstruction - they're so tough and DRY. If you can find small velvelt antler treats, antler is a good supplement (minerals and calcium). It needs to be sliced thinly, so you may not be able to find it.

Smelts will be fine. I prefer fish to be frozen rather than fresh since fish can have parasites....Freezing them for about 2 weeks is sufficient to kill any any parasites they may have if you're fgetting freshly caught fish. Also, you'll want to use fish more like treats unless you enjoy cleaning up stinky poops !!!

Boris.... now boris may try a bit of organ meat - he did like the beff, so be sure to offer beef! If Boris is maintaining his weight and is not thin, I'd recommend cutting back a bit more on the kibble. We need to get Boris interested in all the fun.
You may want to try holding Boris and hand feeding him to see if that helps. Also, you can try mixing a little ground beef in the soup - it may may be enough to get Boris going!

-jennifer

[sherrylynne]

Actually, I've gotten rid of the duck soup in their meals. It's now just meat, broth, and eggshells. And Boris does take it when hand fed. He'll actually take a fair bit. By the way, went to pick up the Wysong's today. The distributor delivered canine Archetype Buffet by mistake. So I sent it back, and they're going to call me tomorrow and let me know about the reorder. And Lucrezia is taking all the meat I put in her cage. She's far too busy exploring when she's out to be interested in mere food!

[mustelidmusk]

Ugh! That's a bummer about the Wysong's!!!! Make sure they order the "Archetype" for cats and dos , or the "Archetypal I" for ferrets. (I want to think that Wysong doesn't ship the ferret version to Canada). Also, once your kids are on the raw, you can tailor the're diet to eat raw meaty bones and/or whole prey and phase out the Wysong's if you want to. You can probably get some freez-dried meats (not balanced) for snacks without having to order them .

Anyway, it sounds like Boris is really stepping up the pace
Two of my kids went through a "hand fed" stage as well. I suspect that Boris will outgrow this and start wanting to eat his meals like a "real ferret" . That's what my kids did! The ferrets that wanted to be held are the ones that eatbetter in a feeding den, so you may want to put Boris in a feeding den or cage by himself every once in a while to see how he does on his own. When my kids started using the dens, they wouls take a few bites and bail. SO I'd let them start out in the denand then finsh feeding them by hand since I knew how much they'd normally eat when bing hand fed.

Keep up the awesome work!

Also, just to let you know, I'll be working 12-hour days fro the rest of August. And I will also have limited access to the web on the weekends. If you need help, please feel free to PM any of the mentors or Giuli if I seem to be "missing in action"!

-jennifer

[Forum Administrator]

Just wanted to touch base. See how things are going. If you have any issues/questions, etc. Just letting you know I'm thinkin' 'bout ya!

[sherrylynne]

Thanks. They are all doing well on either ground meat, or small pieces, except, of course, Boris. He still takes the puree meat mix on my lap, though. I just sometimes wonder how long it will take him to start eating from the dish on his own, though! By the way, the only two to like wing tips are Sinnead and Lucrezia. Boris and Vincent won't touch them yet. Except Vincent to stash them!

[mustelidmusk]

BOYS!!!! What do THEY know???

Try the tug of war with the meats and wings. Also increase the size of the chunks - more chewing required. Also, whole chicken hearts are chewier, so, they're a good "stepping stone" to wings. (You cant cut them in strips at first) This may help the boys develop an interest in in the wing. Also, if you have a heavy knife, you may be able to cut the wing tip down the center to make 2 longer strips, which would be easier to chew. Smaller, short chunkks are more likely to be cause problems, and they're just as difficult to chew as long, thin strips.

Keep working on Boris - try the beef with him again since he liked it. You can try some larger bits of meat as well - perhaps try them hand fed but not in the soup. Then dip them in the soup. Then put them in the soup - if all fails, just get the girls - they know ehat to do!!!

-jennifer

[sherrylynne]

Well, two small bits of good news! Vincent will now check the raw dish in the cage, and eat it if it's there, before he goes to the kibble ! I'll try splitting the wing tips for them, as well. I did try the heart, but couldn't get them interested in it, but will keep trying. Also, the pet store has finally been able to order the right Wysong's for me! It will be here within two weeks, and then we should have no problem reordering. How quickly should 4 fuzzies go through a 190z. bag, do you think? Just to give me an idea on reorder time. And should this be kept refrigerated?

[mustelidmusk]

Go Vincent!!! That's awesome news

The heats and organ meats are definitely different than feeding muscle meat since they taste different and they're chewier....start chopping them up finely and put a small amount in soup or chopped meat. You can do this daily as long as you're using small amounts.


I don't refrigerate my Wysongs and/or freeze-dried meats. I just store them in a cool dry location.

How much Wysong's you need will depend on how how you use it...I try to get my kids eating as much fresh raw as possible since the Wysong is so expensive.

Breakfast -
Large fresh raw meal in the morning. 4 ounces of raw.

Daytime - left out
about 1/2 half cup Wysong's set out in the morning after they eat
Treats - freeze- dry treats (hearts, liver antler, lung, etc) - in foraging cups...

Evening -
Large fresh raw meal in the morning.
1 Fresh treat ( hearts, liver, egg, RMBor any other fresh treat)
The fresh raw I'm feeding is balanced, commercial raw)

Night -
left over freeze-dried foods from the day. (I

I skip the freeze-dried meat during the day if I have extra fresh raw for the evening.

I have 4 REALLY PIGGY ferrets. Your ferrets may be big if they're Canadian. My girls weigh 2-3 lbs My boys weigh 4-5 pounds (2 girls and 2 boys, and their weight varies depending in which boy/girl as well as time of year) 3 of my brats are over 3, and one is over 2 years old, so they don't eat as much as the used to.

Start working on those organ meats along with some different types of meat sources. The Wysong has beef in iand some chicken as well. But your kids will need more that just chicken and beef. Lamb is good as well as othe rpoultry, venison, etc.

The enrichment factor will be great for then, and Boris may even like something new on the menu.

Keep up the good work. I'm glad Vincent goes for raw over kibble.

That's excellent news!!!!
-jennifer

[mustelidmusk]

Almost forgot...
I'l be out of town Friday through Sunday. But I'll be back on Monday. Please feel free to PM the other mentors if you feel you need some help or support
-jennifer

[sherrylynne]

One other bit of good(?) news- last night Boris actually had a chunk of raw ground pork, all by himself, in the cage! He didn't have more than that, but he took it and ate it by himself, with no coaxing! It was silly, but I was almost afraid to move, in case he stopped eating the meat ! He went right back to the kibble after, but I was unusually pleased !
As far as morning feedings go, I let them out to play for about 30 minutes, then give them their breakfast, but they generally don't eat a lot at once. The other three eat some, I hand feed Boris, then when they run off to play, there is still quite a bit left, which I then put in the cage. Usually by supper, it's mostly gone, and I repeat the process, just with a bit less. I don't leave much kibble in the cage at night, either. Maybe 1/4 cup. Is that still too much? I just feel they should be hungrier in the morning. Is it just possible they've become used to grazing through the day/night?

[mustelidmusk]

YAY!!! GO BORIS!!!!!!
How cute - I'd be frozen in my tracks wathing Boris too!!! He's starting to develop a taste for meat

They probably are grazing during the day and night. Kibble fed ferts develop they habit of grazing rather than eating meals.
If you cut back a bit on the kibble, you can get them into the habit of eating larger meals. It will help wean then over to meat as well (especially little Boris)

Plus when you get the wysong, you can get to the point where you leave out a small amount for days/nights as a snack, and basically feed 2 fresh raw meals each days.

Both times Boris has eaten on his own (or at least readily) have been when he's been offered non-chicken. He may prefer plain raw meats to soup. - or he may welcome change in meats - or he may not like chiken all thay well - it is bland in taste. He may like the organ meats whih are tastier.

Keep up the great wor! There was a time whe you thought you'd never have made this much progress.
Have a great weekend - I'll be at the Buckeye Bash!

-jennifer

[sherrylynne]

Okay, I'm getting frustrated today. Boris has started to lose weight, not a lot, but noticable. The problem is, I can hand feed him about 2 tablespoons of raw in the morning, but he flatly refuses to eat it in the evening. It's a major fight even to get him to taste it! And when I put kibble in the cage, Vincent chows down, leaving nothing for Boris. I've started giving him supplemental kibble separately after the raw, just to make sure he has enough to eat, but during the day, and again in the evening, every time I check, the kibble is gone! Vincent, I think. Short of putting Boris in a separate cage(he's slept with Vincent since March), I'm at a loss. And yes, Vincent is eating raw morning and evening. He's just a piggy. Sinnead still isn't eating as much of the raw as I'd like to see, but Lucrezia is doing well, even though they both snack on the raw and kibble. Neither of those two are losing, at least not noticably. And I think Vincent is gaining again! By the way, they all sleep in the same cage. And get out of cage time about 6 hours a day, during which they play and explore most of it, aside from nap attacks!

[sherrylynne]

To solve the problem of Vincent gorging on the kibble, I've removed it from the cage entirely, and leaving the dish of raw in. I hand feed Boris about an ounce of raw in the am, then in the evening, I've gone back to mixing his in duck soup in the evening. This way, he'll at least take it. About 20 minutes after hand feeding, I give him some supplemental kibble til he's full. I give the kibble up where Vincent can't reach it(the table), and sit with him til he's done. Do you think this will give him enough nutrition? I'm at a loss as to what to do otherwise. I've also started mincing up a chicken heart in each meal. Just the one heart for the four of them.
On a positive note, the chicken wings in the cage are usually gone every time! I'm not sure which one is eating them, but they are demolished . Also, this morning, I partially blended chicken with bone, leaving the bone in larger pieces. Sinnead was literally picking out the bone, and enjoying it! I could hear her crunching them. How old does Lucretia need to be before she's able to eat the bones this way? Other than wing tips that is.

[Forum Administrator]

Time to invest in a feeding syringe Go to Walgreens and pick one up (its a needless medication syringe) its like $2. It might be a good idea to syringe feed Borris some food every night. Its certainly easier then spoon feeding

As for who is eating the wings? My money is on Lucrezia Oh and she can eat whole chicken bones immediately. In fact as soon as a ferret is weaned from their mommy they can eat small, raw bone Just be careful with the size of the bone pieces. Make sure they are fairly small or WHOLE bones. If you get medium sized bone pieces you up the risk of them choking, whereas with a whole raw bone they can chew off reasonable pieces and the choking risk is way reduced (IMO not any higher then the risk of choking on kibble).

Jennifer should be in soon to specifically address your questions. Just hang tight she'll be here to help soon.

[sherrylynne]

Since Boris is taking about an ounce per feeding(as long as it's with duck soup ), how much should I syringe-feed him? Oh, and by the way-liver is a no-go! The only one who would eat it this morning was Lucrezia, who promptly threw it all up again! Silly girl evidently ate it so fast, she couldn't keep it down . She was fine right afterwards. I was in a hurry this morning, and had no other raw thawed and prepped, so I had to put kibble in. I took it out as soon as I got home, so they'll be hungry for the ground turkey . I'm going to a local pet store who has frozen raw tomorrow, so they can have a little more variety. As for the liver, I'm sticking to slicing small amounts into their regular meals !