vkp23
Going Natural
Posts: 192
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Post by vkp23 on Jan 29, 2011 3:26:02 GMT -5
Oh dear lord! Maybe I should consider the shower stall!
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 29, 2011 4:03:35 GMT -5
Some one correct me if I'm wrong... The food he is feeding the mice SHOULD be fine. I raised rats as pets many moons ago and I fed them that type of stuff all the time. Rats and mice are omnivores so they have TONS more leeway in what they can/can not eat. There isn't much they CAN'T eat. Actually while rats and mice are omnivorous, there are several things they cannot process well (besides poisonous foods) - two biggies being corn and alfalfa meal, the latter of which they derive absolutely NO nutrition from, and corn is just a junk food that is better left out of rodent food altogether (though it is NOT 99% of the time). The best types of lab blocks are those that do not have corn as the first ingredient (again, better if not in it at ALL) and NO alfalfa meal. Most people feed Kaytee lab blocks which are terrible. Mazuri is a tiny bit better but contains alfalfa meal (this is all I can find in pet stores). The best of all is Harlan Teklad laboratory rodent diets (also known as Native Earth under their commercial names). This will have to be ordered online, usually in bulk, though it is possible to order smaller amounts. It is no wonder our rodents have so many respiratory problems and tumor outcroppings when they are housed without adequate ventilation or a proper, homemade diet. I wish more would realize that if you can't plunk a bag of kibble down for a cat, dog, or ferret - the same should be said for rodents. There are many that come a long way with alternative diets for their carnivores but just don't think of the consequences of a poor diet for their rodents. And if one breeds for feeders - proper diet makes for healthier nutrition in the end for your carnivore as well. The best diets are your own variations on the Shunamite diet (specifically a rat diet but there are variations for mice also) if those of you who breed are interested. Google to find more info - it's basically you mix so many cups of cereal, so many cups of lab blocks, a varying amount of dog kibble for protein based on age, etc., etc., and supply fresh fruit and veggies everyday and crickets/mealworms supplementarily (for the rodents). My only qualm is that the lab blocks considered the best contain soybean meal instead of corn, which is, albeit, somewhat better but considering the genetic make-up of rats is closer to humans than that of cats and dogs (cited from a study done with the Human Genome Project), and so much controversy has recently been exposed in soy x human = cancer and other problems (read "The Whole Soy Story") I would almost advocate creating your own diet minus lab blocks altogether. Before I take that step I will be exploring many more diets however, many rodent people still believe soy is the best thing ever and I'm very skeptical. Just my two cents. I don't believe any rodent should have to suffer with an inadequate diet of blocks all its life and no fresh food/seeds/variety. Would you eat a cereal "designed to meet all your nutritional requirements" every day, every meal, for all YOUR life? Just my two cents.
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Post by tinytippytoes on Jan 29, 2011 5:45:15 GMT -5
Amen to that! All my rats do eat high quality dog food which is 18 % protein and a mix made by Suebees menu from Goosemoose and 3x's a week they get fresh food. Kaylee is just junk for any small critter with so much corn and other stuff that's been know to harm them. Fishtanks are terrible! Besides being know to trap urine and other wastes how do they climb and hop around like rats like to do. As for feeding my ferts I believe I'm going to just feed raw and not whole because it just isn't in me to that.
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vkp23
Going Natural
Posts: 192
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Post by vkp23 on Jan 29, 2011 8:09:02 GMT -5
You make a lot of good points! While I did feed the lab type blocks to my rats all the time, I did still feed them lots of fresh fruits veggies and meat. (Although the meat was cooked. Hey I was only 15 and didn't know better not to give it cooked. LOL ) With the mice I have now I plan on making my own food for them. They don't seem too into the home dried veggies I keep trying to give them so I may have to rethink my methods on that.
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 29, 2011 8:15:07 GMT -5
Amen to that! All my rats do eat high quality dog food which is 18 % protein and a mix made by Suebees menu from Goosemoose and 3x's a week they get fresh food. Kaytee is just junk for any small critter with so much corn and other stuff that's been know to harm them. Fishtanks are terrible! Besides being know to trap urine and other wastes how do they climb and hop around like rats like to do. As for feeding my ferts I believe I'm going to just feed raw and not whole because it just isn't in me to that. I'm on the same page, tippy. I know I want the best for my fuzzy but I truly feel raw can be just as good when done right, and I can get whole quail from my asian store here and whole quail/partridge from my co-op. I just can't raise whole prey when I'm a rodent fancier. I do however hope to change how other people may approach it - give them healthier lives, no matter how short. (Not trying to guilt-trip anyone here.) I keep our gerbils and my mouse in secure latch-lid terrariums but they have their tanks cleaned twice a week at minimum. I would NEVER keep rats in one though because they are far too small/unnatural and are possibly even more susceptible to respiratory difficulties than mice are. I wish I could keep my smaller rodents in wire cages, but the only problem with that is I learned my lesson with raising/saving some wild mice - they can squeeze through 1/4 inch spacing ! And I can't find anything smaller. I have hunter cats, too, so better safe than sorry - and I was sorry two too many times. o.o About $150 in exotics bills and the death of one of those two times was more than enough reminder (terrible vet's fault, she killed it). We should chat ratty diets when I get my rats.
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 29, 2011 8:24:51 GMT -5
You make a lot of good points! While I did feed the lab type blocks to my rats all the time, I did still feed them lots of fresh fruits veggies and meat. (Although the meat was cooked. Hey I was only 15 and didn't know better not to give it cooked. LOL ) With the mice I have now I plan on making my own food for them. They don't seem too into the home dried veggies I keep trying to give them so I may have to rethink my methods on that. That's wonderful! Home-made mouse food is the BEST. My current mouse Mirabel was literally obese until we began changing up her diet (we still have to be very, very careful). One of the best things you can do if your mice are overly fat is feed dried whole-meal bread, though we switch up the kinds. She also gets shredded wheat (the kind in bite-size pieces) from 365 at Whole Foods. That's pretty slimming, our vet recommended it for her. I'm not surprised they didn't like the dried veggies...that sounds kind of blah. Or maybe I just have a sweet tooth like my pets - mice generally love dried fruit, but prefer their veggies and fruit nice and fresh and wet. If you feed too much they can get diarrhea however, so I would stick to no more than 1 Tbsp (max) per mouse per day, usually less is more than adequate, but when you house a lot of mice it adds up. If they're too skinny healthy treats are raw cashews (another thing all my rodents are "nuts" about - hahahah). No more than two small pieces (broken up, not whole cashews) per day at a normal weight. P.S. She's an organic spinach and tomato fanatic!
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vkp23
Going Natural
Posts: 192
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Post by vkp23 on Jan 29, 2011 8:46:52 GMT -5
Yeah I was trying to go for dried veggies because I know they don't freeze well if you're not going to cook them and I worry about wasting money on veggies that spoil. I'm sure I can get them to eat dried bananas and apples. Though also my oldest daughter loves bananas so I could give those fresh from time to time for sure. We get our daughter a bunch every time we go shopping. I was thinking of making a mix of dry fruits and veggies and oats and whole wheat bread cubes and a little dog kibble. But if they wont eat the dried veggies I'll have to figure what to do about that. Since we are paying off a loan when we get our taxes we will have a lot more money available per month. So I was thinking of making more from scratch meals (since I FINALLY got my crock-pot for Christmas like I'd asked for for 5 YEARS) since we would have the money to do so. I could give them some of the left overs that I didn't use in our meals. Like celery and carrot ends and what not. Can they have potatoes? Cause I can give them potato pieces too. And HOPEFULLY we will have a better garden this year and that will make things easier as well. My husband and I BOTH have brown thumbs when it comes to veggie gardens. Although he has a VERY green thumb with flowers. ETA: I was also thinking of getting crickets and meal worms as treats for BOTH the mice and ferrets. Even though I'm breeding mice as feeders I still want them to have a good life before they are offed. Like the broilers (chickens) we get. They get to raom in a big ole yard and do what chickens do before they get sent to freezer land.
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 29, 2011 20:20:38 GMT -5
Yeah I was trying to go for dried veggies because I know they don't freeze well if you're not going to cook them and I worry about wasting money on veggies that spoil. I'm sure I can get them to eat dried bananas and apples. Though also my oldest daughter loves bananas so I could give those fresh from time to time for sure. We get our daughter a bunch every time we go shopping. I was thinking of making a mix of dry fruits and veggies and oats and whole wheat bread cubes and a little dog kibble. But if they wont eat the dried veggies I'll have to figure what to do about that. Since we are paying off a loan when we get our taxes we will have a lot more money available per month. So I was thinking of making more from scratch meals (since I FINALLY got my crock-pot for Christmas like I'd asked for for 5 YEARS) since we would have the money to do so. I could give them some of the left overs that I didn't use in our meals. Like celery and carrot ends and what not. Can they have potatoes? Cause I can give them potato pieces too. And HOPEFULLY we will have a better garden this year and that will make things easier as well. My husband and I BOTH have brown thumbs when it comes to veggie gardens. Although he has a VERY green thumb with flowers. ETA: I was also thinking of getting crickets and meal worms as treats for BOTH the mice and ferrets. Even though I'm breeding mice as feeders I still want them to have a good life before they are offed. Like the broilers (chickens) we get. They get to raom in a big ole yard and do what chickens do before they get sent to freezer land. Vegetables actually freeze fine. You just don't want to feed them freezer-burned, but if they're not freezer-burned it's perfectly okay. My in-laws freeze their home-grown veggies all the time (we would if we had a garden, alas, not until we move and have a backyard). NEVER feed potato skin to rodents, it's poisonous. Raw, skinless potato in moderation can be okay, but I've never fed it simply because of the skin issue, seems risky to me. Instant potatoes can, if fed, expand in the stomach and kill mice. So that's another no-no. Crickets are very nutritious but mealworms should only be fed once in a VERY long while because they are fatty and not very healthy at all. Occasional nuts are better IMO. Mice are crazy about mealworms which makes it tempting to feed them all the time (you should see them pounce on one and rip the head off!!!) O.O but after seeing mine plump up like crazy on them I'd only do it every few months. They're like mousey potato chips.
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Post by sherrylynne on Jan 29, 2011 21:14:29 GMT -5
I've always had to at the least, blanch the veg's to freeze them. Otherwise, they don't seem to fair so well.
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