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Post by Heather on Nov 7, 2010 22:19:07 GMT -5
Name: HF Forum Username: Otterwoman 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? roaming about online 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I'm not 100% sure what I want to feed for sure, but for now I want to try Bravo, Wysong, and then maybe later my own stuff. I need it to be convenient because I work a lot. I want to at least improve their diet somewhat. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? for their good health. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? yes 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? Four- Dipsy (male) apx. 2, Dutzi (female) apx. 2, Milkdud (male) apx. 2, and Blanket (male) unknown age, no one wanted him and I took him in. He's old. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) kitten food, now mixed with/switching over to Evo ferret food until I get them eating raw Their only treat is Petromalt Hairball goo, which they love and I use to get them to do tricks. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? no never before. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I'm not sure how far I want to go, but I want to improve their diet as much as they'll let me. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? daily 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). see my intro thread www.holisticferret.proboards.com/....lay&thread=6072you can see endless pictures of them here www.facebook.com/pages/Your-Daily-Ferret/121861234494647?v=wallHi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherrylynne) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 7, 2010 23:24:16 GMT -5
Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 4yrs, to 15(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 3, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and I've decided against surgery for her. After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old. Also both adrenal, and on lupron. After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back! While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him. The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet. With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. That's me and mine in a nutshell The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma. So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed! And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay! I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 8, 2010 16:13:24 GMT -5
Thank you, Sherrylynne! I have to update that on Saturday I got a baby ferret I named "Cinnabon" that I first saw at the pet store on Oct 15, and I couldn't live without anymore. A little more about me, I just turned 50, I'm a nurse, and I also have (besided the ferrets and cats) 5 cornsnakes, and I raise and breed exotic newts.
I should mention that I am switching my cats at the same time I'm doing the ferrets. They seem more amenable to this change. I just read in your post that you shouldn't mix kibble and raw? Right now I am trying Bravo. I ordered some Wysong in the mail so I could try that; if the ferrets take to that, I'll find someone local to order it for me. For the cats, I've been mixing Bravo in with their canned food and I switched their kibble to a better brand. They have been eating the Bravo with their old favorite (Fancy Feast) mixed in, and i'll slowly use less and less FFeast until they eat just that. I will probably keep some kibble for them too, but I haven't decided yet. My main goal is to improve their diets if I don't change them completely over. As for the ferrets, I was hoping that the baby might show them that eating soft is OK- they feed them soft food at the pet store. I started by switching them to a better kibble (EVO) and first mixing a little Evo in with their kitten food. Then I started moistening their kibble so they could get used to the idea of eating soft- they were not open to it, and though they try to eat the cats' kibble whenver possible, they never touch their canned food. Finally then, for a day and a half, they had been eating the moistened kibble (they've really had no choice). Yesterday I started adding a little Bravo to one of their bowls (they have three) of moistened kibble. The baby took right to it, and prefers it to the plain moistened kibble. I have not seen the others eating it yet, but I work the night shift and just got up a little while ago, so I haven't been observing them much in the last 18 hours. But is it wrong of me to mix the moistened kibble with the Bravo? Thank you again and so much for taking me on.
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 8, 2010 18:52:54 GMT -5
Hey, that's what we're here for The reason for not mixing the raw and kibble is the fact that they digest at different rates, and some raw may get "stuck" behind the kibble, causing problems. This does NOT bother most ferrets, but some will get very upset tummies over it. As for the new baby- congrats!!! I'm willing to bet the little one does prefer the raw over the kibble. You'd be able to get him on full RMB's(raw meaty bones) very easily, if that's the way you decide to go. With the other two, try taking the kibble out overnight, then offer them the moistened kibble or Bravo in the morning(over vice versa). If they are allowed to work up a bit of an appetite, they might be a bit more amenable to trying it at least. Are you willing to try a raw homemade soup for them if this doesn't work? It would be a couple of chicken thighs, a liver, couple of hearts, and some powdered eggshell, and enough water/broth to make it soupy. Blend all in a blender til smooth(I just wound up using the chicken thighs and water ) . You can freeze the excess in icecube trays for later feedings.
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 8, 2010 18:58:19 GMT -5
To try the soup, I'd have to get a blender first. If I couldn't get them going, I could do that on a weekend. Could I make a soup out of the Bravo? that had already occurred to me, to mush it up with some chicken broth or water, and dab it on their noses like I read about.
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 8, 2010 19:12:50 GMT -5
Certainly you could. It wouldn't be a "puree" texture because of the bone, but to be honest, it's what I used for my last one
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 9, 2010 13:37:09 GMT -5
Well, if they would eat Bravo like the baby does, we wouldn't need this thread. I tried a bowl of just the bravo today and the baby stuck his head in their and ate his fill. When I checked later, the Bravo bowl was empty and the moistened kibble bowl was still full. I think it was too much for just the baby. I'm home most all day today and I'm going to feed them all just Bravo and watch to see if they are all eating, or who is eating and who is not.
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 9, 2010 22:58:22 GMT -5
That's a good idea, since kits would eat you out of house and home otherwise You may wind up hand feeding the others for while, but that's ok for now, too!
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 10, 2010 17:41:26 GMT -5
Today's update: I meant to take the food out last night before bed and return it in the morning, but I forgot. This morning though all the raw food was gone (and I'd taken out the kibble). So before I went to work, I put about 5 oz more in, and when I came home it was all gone. Now I've put in about 10 oz and I'll see what they eat this evening. I think this switch may be easier than I thought! But my female keeps jumping over the ferret barriers to the cat food and eating that (she's the only one able to jump over the barriers, so I just try to keep a special eye on her). It's hard to say no to such and adventurous spirit. She's such an intrepid little ferret, she's my role mode.
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 10, 2010 21:09:45 GMT -5
That's fantastic! If they keep eating it like that, you might just be able to ditch the kibble I should warn you, though. For the first 2-4 months, they'll eat you out of house and home Their bodies almost seem to try to make up for all the nutrition they were missing on the kibble. With my original 4, they were going through about 12-14 oz PER MEAL!!! After 3-4 months, they settled down to around 6 Mind you, winter appetites had also kicked in while we were switching. Ok. Leave them with what you are feeding now for a few days, and then try them with a different protein base, see how they do with that. In other words, if you are feeding chicken now, try beef, or lamb- basically anything. I'd also pick up some chicken wings/necks if you can, to give the little one something to chew on. It helps tremendously with teething, biting, behaviours, etc. It's also fantastic for cleaning their teeth.
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 10, 2010 21:34:17 GMT -5
The one that keeps going for the cats' kibble, she would lick the bravo off my finger, but not eat from the bowl (while I was watching). they'll all eat it off my finger, so I am guessing that even if I dont' see them eating, they are willing to eat it. I still haven't seen two of them eating from the bowl. Should I worry or just assume they are eating when I'm not looking? Are there signs that will tell me that they didn't eat for a while (before the obvious, weight loss, kicks in)? They haven't had kibble now in their cage for about 24 hours.
I'll check what they have in the meat section my next trip to the supermarket.
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 11, 2010 11:36:35 GMT -5
I came up with this solution: if they are willing to eat if I hand feed them, I sat down with each of them today and made sure they ate a whole teaspoonful. That's about 1 oz. From what I've read (please correct me) a good daily ration is 2 oz or so?
Also went to the supermarket. The meat is all packaged in gigantic family portions. They did repackage one strip of beef heart for me, which I diced, froze most, and kept some in the fridge to try with them later. I also bought a cornish game hen, they are small. I cut that up too (I think I'd make an OK serial killer!), saved one wing, and froze the rest. I can try these pieces later and tomorrow and the rest unfreeze in pieces when I'm ready. Also my bag of Wysong arrived, so I can try that too. But they will all eat the Bravo for me off a spoon while I hold them, so I think I'm well on the way to changing their diet to at least Bravo at this point. yay!
p.s. can the average user around here (i.e. a newbie like me) have an avatar or what are they conditions to have one? Thanks.
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 11, 2010 12:52:51 GMT -5
I have to say something else: my old rescue ferret is starting to show signs of adrenal. So I took him to the vet today and I told her about how I'm trying to switch them to raw. She really tried to put the fear of god and Salmonella into me. She really gave me a lecture about the dangers of raw food. Can somebody please talk me down?
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 11, 2010 21:02:36 GMT -5
FIrst, let me deal with the vet issue. I hate it when they do this. You have to remember- your vet likely doesn't know as much about a raw diet as YOU do. Dietary needs are an optional course in a very expensive study program. Usually sponsored by the pet food companies. Usually Hill's. And it's an 8 hour course. I've actually read letters sent home by vet students talking about how they were bashed by the reps doing the course if they so much as brought up raw diets Please remember, your little carnivore's digestive tract is very short. It takes 3-4 hours from the time it goes in their mouths til it comes out the other end. Salmonella takes about 8 hours to brew up in the gut. Do the math Also, I honestly don't believe there are any little stoves out where our ferrets wild cousins live quite happily on their whole prey diets Add to that fact, kibbles were only developed in the '50s. Guaranteed, they didn't cook and prepare a pet's diet prior to that! Here's a really good link to read. It's fairly lengthy, but worth while. They talk mainly about dogs, but it's true for all carnivores: www.rawfed.com/myths/I have several others, if you are interested. Now, on to business! The hand feeding is a good idea. And never assume they are eating by themselves unless you actually see them chowing down. One of mine was licking at the dish, so I assumed she was eating fine. Til she dropped a LOT of weight! Kibble came back out at night for her You might want to try having them in an enclosed area, and putting the dish with the bravo out, and them at it. That way, you can see who is eating how much. And adapt accordingly. You will likely have to go from finger feeding, to spoon feeding for a bit first, though. But try them with it anyway. Anyone who doesn't eat from the dish, grab them, and give them some from a spoon. Kind of like a transition thing, between finger and dish. It will likely take a little while before they are actually chowing down on bone, meat chunks, etc, since this is a new diet for them. They can become overwhelmed if the piece is too large. Then again- they may just surprise you!!! And me
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Post by otterwoman on Nov 11, 2010 21:10:20 GMT -5
She was mostly talking about ME getting salmonella, but the animals too more as an aside. As soon as I mentioned that I thought since they eat animals in nature they probably have a better system to fight this sort of thing, she turned it to Me getting sick unless I'm extremely extremely careful, like the Bravo is just brewing with salmonella.
Also I told her, on this forum where I've been reading about it, they said no one has gotten salmonella there; she said 'then they are all extremely lucky' and 'it's a matter of time'. Here we were being non-specific talking about about animals and people at once.
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