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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 9, 2010 15:04:55 GMT -5
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Post by jacksmomma on Nov 9, 2010 15:20:54 GMT -5
Oh this is so great!
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Post by WTFerret on Nov 9, 2010 15:28:42 GMT -5
Any way you could add pictures of their progress ?
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Post by Heather on Nov 9, 2010 16:31:02 GMT -5
That is really fantastic, Jennifer. Great news. Now, you started your little ones on this at a very early stage of their adrenal and they're younger. What about information on the use of deslorin on older or more advance stages of adrenal? Is there any information on this? ciao
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Post by jacksmomma on Nov 9, 2010 16:43:13 GMT -5
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Post by acodlin on Nov 9, 2010 21:19:17 GMT -5
So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery.
It's awesome news that the deslorelin helped her so much, hopefully she won't have to deal with adrenal disease anymore!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 9, 2010 21:30:23 GMT -5
I haven't read anything on advanced adrenal and the Deslorelin implants. I do know hat some ferrets have been found to have large tumors even with the deslorelin. But what's unknown is the history of the disease prior to administration of the implants.
Here's a correct to my earlier post.... The implants were injected mid-Agust.
Here's the interesting part from the pathology report...
From Description: "...The adrenal tissue containsan area of fibrosis with some interspersed aggregates of mildly hypertrophic well-differentiated cortical epithelial cells. This change is observed within relatively otherwise normal-appearing cortical tissue..."
From Comments: "The area of fibrosis described within the adrenal gland may be an area of fibrosis within an adrenal tumor that responded/regressed subsequent to the Suprelorin implant."
-jennifer
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 9, 2010 22:49:40 GMT -5
In response to the following question.... So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery. This is a difficult call since there are no data regarding very long term use of the Deslorelin. However, I have heard that there are ferrets out there on their 3rd year of Suprelorin implants that are still working. Here is how I manage my ferrets (for btter or for worse) Prep-work: * get a baseline adrenal panel done. * Get a baseline ultrasound done. * After getting the baselines done, get either the suprelorin implant OR the lupron. (Lupron will need to be given MONTHLY for the one-month shots, which work better than the 3-/4-month depots. * If the dieases is mild/early, delay surgery for now. * If the disease is advanced/bad, get surgery now. the reason for delaying the surgery for now is that removing one gland earlier than it really needs to be taken may just push the remaining gland into disease sooner than if the other gland can "hang around" a little longer without putting your ferret in dire risk for metastaic cancer and/or prostate issues. Remember, adrenal tends to be slow to develop, and the tumors don't tend to metasticize over night. Also, if one drug tops working, you still have the other drug and melatonin as well. Once you get passed the initial "prep work above, you'll want to monitor the disease as follows: Maintenance Phase: 5. Check adrenal panel against baseline at least 2 times per year: late dec./ early jan and aug./sept. for males. (For females - late Jan/early feb and oct/nov.) (This is approximate since timing may be affected by latitude.) 6. check the ultrasound baseline once a year. (do this when you do wthe winter time bood work) If symptoms are not getting much worse, and if the tests indicate that disease is not getting a whole lot worse, you may want to avoid surgery again. the bottom line is that you want to watch clinical symptoms, blood work, and ultra-sound to determine "if"/"when" to do surgery. You'll need to discuss findings with the vet, who hopefully has a LOT of experience with adrenal ferrets. My approach is that I try to detect issues early, monitor often. Adrenal starts out very slowly, so I try to avoid surgery as long as possible.. If I see an abrupt change in blood work , lasting behavior, or the ultrasound, OR if there's a slow steady progression of change over a long period of time such that monitored parameters show moderate diease, I wll do surgery. Since there is no predicting what may happen, all you can do is try things, monitor & dicuss things with the vet, and basically discuss options as the need arises. Adrenal disease is soooo frustrating, but remember - there are worse things out there. jennifer
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 9, 2010 23:06:44 GMT -5
OMG! That is amazing! I really didn't think the glands would start to heal like that
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 10, 2010 9:47:20 GMT -5
I was shocked as well.....That makes trying the Deslorelin VERY attractive for avoiding surgery in early adrenal cases. If I hd know that healing was possible, I definitely would have not done the surgery. This is a GOOD argument in favor of base lining with ultrasound to check for reduction in the size of the gland. The other think that's cool is that since my brats have very few clinical signs (rat tail that clears on its own and behavioral things), there's not much clinical "proof" to determine how well the Suprelorin has been working. Now THIS info. has been inspirational - LOL!!!! I also find that my kids handle surgery really well, and they recover/heal so fast.....I swear it's the raw food And I even feed commercial raw. My vet is so amazed at the constitutional and apparent health of my ferrets - I swear by raw - even the freeze-dried is worth doing over kibble. (I know, I'm "preaching to the choir" ) -jennifer
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Post by bluemoose on Nov 10, 2010 13:59:06 GMT -5
You may have already addressed this but do you have an opinion on using Deslorelin as a preventative measure against adrenal? It would be implanted before what would be the ferret's season if it were intact right? So it would be best to get it in the winter?
Also, how many vets generally have Deslorelin? It is becoming more common or is it still fairly difficult to find?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 10, 2010 23:47:11 GMT -5
In the US, some vets have the deslorelin. Vets back East and possibly Northwest coast seem more likely to have the implants. In general, the implants require some work to obtain, but it's not hat difficult if you ave a ets that's nterested in geting some. If you have a ferret that's intact, you can use the Suprelorin implants to keep from coming into season. If I had intact ferrets, I would opt in favor of keeping them out of season by using the Suprelorin implants INSTEAD of neutering. If your ferret is intact and you plan to try the Suprelorin implants preventively, I would implant early to mid december. The implants can be slow to start working in some ferrets. However, if your ferrets are adrenal and you need to adres issue, you can give the implant any time. I did mine mid august, and my brats are still trying to figure out how to shed after getting the implant. They seem to have an extended season of "crappy coat" since the implants really started to kick n right when they wanted to shed. It messed up their normal shedding this fall . We've also had an abnormally warm fall this year, so my brats don't quite know what t do with their fur. -jennifer
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Post by bluemoose on Nov 10, 2010 23:57:42 GMT -5
Oh mine are neutered. I meant the time of year they would normally go into season if they hadn't been neutered (if that makes sense). Even if the ferret is neutered some hormones are still produced during breeding season yes? Isn't that part of the whole issue with adrenal disease?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 11, 2010 0:14:19 GMT -5
Yes, all ferret,whether intact or neutered will have hormonal spikes in the late winter/early spring. the problem is that when the gonads are removed, the adrenal glands start to produce the hormones. Over time, the adrenal glands become diseased from being overwrked at taking over the funtion of producing hormones.
-jennifer
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Post by bluemoose on Nov 11, 2010 0:46:32 GMT -5
So if using Deslorelin as a preventative, what is the best time of year to get the implant? Would mid-late December be too late?
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