|
Post by mustelidmusk on Jul 28, 2010 10:00:01 GMT -5
The veggies can be used long term to add bulk to the diet, which helps with the "puckered bum".
As SherryLynne mentioned, the lettuce works well...minced broccoli, green beans, zucchini, just about any mild-tasting greens will work. The key is that this must be very finely chopped or ground up . NO CHUNKS, of course!
Because the veggies, like the pumpkin, are poorly digested by ferrets, they add bulk yo the diet. Although tons of fiber is not a great idea for most ferrets. the colon requires some fiber to remain in good condition. Start adding a little bit of veggies to Koda's food. Increase this slowly over time until you arrive at a quantity that produces a formed stool.
Regarding the antlers. My kids chew them up . you can also clip them into tiny bits using wire cutters.
The issue with adding extra bone meal all the time to control the poop quality is that you should be feeding the meat/organs/bone according to "prey proportions" . When you add bone meal on top of an already balanced diet, You may be giving a higher percentage of bone which skews the calcium phosphorous ratio. Too much calcium is hard on the kidneys. SHort term imbalances in the food mix is not an issue. Also, there's a measure of variability in prey in the wild depending upon what's available.
The pumpkin can be used longer term. I prefer the green veggies because the pumpkin is more likely to contain more sugars/starches than green veggies.
Does all this make sense? If not, please let me know wht I have not answered. -jennifer
|
|
|
Post by 1 on Jul 28, 2010 11:40:56 GMT -5
Yes pumpkin is a fruit, fruit = sugger! I (if could) would mabe (not that I know) try pea pods, and I mean the kind even we are not supposed eat, pick peas out pods. Koda, get well soon, AND STAY WELL!
|
|
|
Post by luci on Jul 28, 2010 12:08:29 GMT -5
Aaron, pumpkin is a vegetable. And one that is lower in carbs than other veggies. Please check your facts before you post.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jul 28, 2010 12:50:34 GMT -5
Actually, sorry (Bio nerding out here I apologize), but pumpkin and other squashes are technically considered fruits. Though we think of them as vegetables, many "veggies" are actually fruits. Zucchini, tomatoes, peas, cucumbers, nuts even... Fruits are the matured "ovary" of the plant containing and nourishing the seeds, where veggies are typically part of the plant's stalk, roots, or leaves. Seeds=fruit, no seeds=veggie. BUT speaking in non-scientific terms, yes, pumpkin and corn and tomatoes and such are considered "veggies," probably because they do not have the sugary, juicy sweetness that we associate with fruit. (is there a ferret smiley with big nerd glasses? hehe There should be...) www.thefreedictionary.com/fruitNow, back on topic. I feed my iguana collard, mustard, and turnip greens. Once Koda jumped into her cage (she was not in it, she was busy hanging out on my curtain rod lol) and started eating the greens! I didn't know they could eat stuff like that, so I quickly took him out, but I figured dogs and cats eat grass when they have a belly ache so maybe he had one. Would my iguana greens be appropriate veggies to give? I already have to buy them and always have tons on hand, so I would not have to buy other veggies. Sherrylynne, with frozen lettuce I would worry that as it thawed it would get soggy and start to go bad and honestly between Koda and Tito (ig) I have experienced rotten veggie smell and rotten meat smell and I will take rotten meat over rotten veggie any day. Granted yes, I plan on removing all food before it goes bad, but Koda is a master stasher, and I sometimes miss things. Jennifer - if he chews up the antler pieces, I don't need to worry about chocking or blockage? I think I would leave them in bigger pieces so he HAS to chew them and can't just swallow them. lol But if he does break of little pieces and swallow them, they will not hurt him, right? Thank you all very much for your help.
|
|
|
Post by 1 on Jul 28, 2010 16:09:11 GMT -5
its not your falt, nothing personal.
|
|
|
Post by sherrylynne on Jul 28, 2010 21:27:12 GMT -5
The reason for freezing it is to make it limp and wilted, almost as though it were cooked. It's easier on his tummy that way, and not as likely to cause any sort of blockage problems, since he won't be actually digesting it. It still adds the fiber he'd need even wilted. Just give him what he'll eat of it without running off with it
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Jul 28, 2010 21:58:53 GMT -5
The antler is actually softer than bone because it's in the young, velvet stage. The slices are very thin. the center is very porous and can hold yummy oils or meat pastes. the outer skin is thick, somewhat leathery with fur. The antler will NOT splinter. It's actually less likely to cause issue than bone because it's sliced very thin. Bone and eggshell fragments are visible in poop - but I've never seen a bit of antler in my kids' poops - I think the antler breaks down more so than the bone and eggshell.
Years ago, I recommended the antlers to a breeder who had a calcium deficiency issue with one of her breeding jills. She started feeding the small dog antler treats. After the first bag of the small antlers she switched to the medium-sized treat which as thicker that the small ones. About a year-and-a-half later, I was at the Buckeye Bash in Ohio and some of the raffles had packages of the antler treats I had recommended. So, apparently, the antler thing has caught on with some people. Prior to my introduction of these treat on the Natural Ferret Forum, I don't think anybody used them. I "discovered" these treats at a dog show in Denver. The treats were a brand new product at the time. The rancher that produces them is located in a small town in Southern Colorado where the herds are healthy and disease-free.
So the antlers are less likely to cause isues than veggies that are not finely chopped. The iguana greens will be fine as long as you chop them finely enough.
To make life easier, you can try the following: parboil a bunch of greens for a couple of seconds. whip them up in a blend with a little water. make them into ice cubes that can be stored in a freezer bags. Or you can mince of finely chop them daily, chop enough for a couple of days and store them in the fridge...whatever works best for you!
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jul 28, 2010 22:31:20 GMT -5
The reason behind the frozen veggie thing....it breaks down the cell walls, something your little carnivore's digestive system cannot do. By freezing the veggie you do part of the job for them. It works very well. Now, if you're afraid of fermenting veggies and horrible smell, try mixing it in a ground mixture or with your organ mix. I throw the veggies in a ground mixture that I use. The amount works to recreate the same process that fur does. Totally raw veggies may cause issues. I know of one lady who uses a fermented veggie mix with very good results (again it partially predigests the veggies, so your little one doesn't have to do the digesting) I don't know the process but you can look it up. I gather it does smell awful though ciao
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Jul 29, 2010 10:01:41 GMT -5
Hey! If you start fermenting veggies, just let me know....I'm coming over for cocktails - LOL!!!
The freezing and the parboil do similar thing.
One of the reasons why I'm looking into the epigen kibble is that it is higher fiber, so a tiny amount served daily may work for some people who want a convenient way to add some bulk to the diet. Indeed, the is is heat-processed food, but it maybe not wore than adding a small amount of veggies to the diet - they both work as "sawdust" in the food (i.e., not added for nutrition).
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 11, 2010 12:45:30 GMT -5
Well I ordered the Velvet antler the other day because Koda was clawing to get out of his kennel on the way to Shane's and I noticed his nails were...not splitting, but splintering if that makes sense. Little pieces were flaking off. I added a little squash to his diet, but haven't found a god way to add veggies consistently yet. I don't feed soup as all of his meals are pre-prepared and frozen and are just chunks of meat, organ, and bone. I am not sure how to convince him to eat the veggies other than as ground up something, or babyfood - both of which make a huge mess of his feeding box... Will he eat it still if it is just shopped up and put in with his meat chunks? When I prepare his next freezer batch - which will be soon - can I mix pieces of lettuce, etc in with the portions and freeze it with the meat so it will take up some of the taste of the meats?
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 11, 2010 15:00:45 GMT -5
What if you made a mush mix, would he eat that? I use it as together time. It helps if they're sick and you're not dumping something entirely new on them. All my guys love their mush. It's not totally necessary but it does help if they have a soupy that they recognise and really like when they're ill. When they're not ill, it's a snuggle and be fed time. Others just serve it in a bowl on the floor. It's a thought ciao
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 11, 2010 15:28:46 GMT -5
I have made a mush mix before, but it is very time consuming to make, and it is messy to serve (Koda is a messy eater lol). As well, it does not seem to stay fresh in the fridge as long after it is thawed for some reason. He does love it, and he recognizes it and will eat it, but it is not very... practical for me at this point. I could do it every now and then, but not on a very regular basis. I would like to feed him fiber foods perhaps every other day to start, then try to wean him down to once or twice a week when his stomach seems to be settling.
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 11, 2010 19:20:27 GMT -5
You miht want to try some chopped white button mushrooms - they absorb all kinds of flavors - Olive oil, fish oil, ferretone.etc. It should not take much oil. He might LIKE chopped shitake mushroom. My ferts like it, and I've heard several other reports of ferts liking it...besides, it has a texture similar to and eraser, so Koda might go for it. If you rehydrate dried mushies, be sure the put a lot of water in it - let is soak over night. You can probably use some cheaper fresh button mushrooms in with the shitakes. The juice will contain good nutrients as well. -jennifer
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 12, 2010 3:19:02 GMT -5
You miht want to try some chopped white button mushrooms - they absorb all kinds of flavors - Olive oil, fish oil, ferretone.etc. It should not take much oil. He might LIKE chopped shitake mushroom. My ferts like it, and I've heard several other reports of ferts liking it...besides, it has a texture similar to and eraser, so Koda might go for it. If you rehydrate dried mushies, be sure the put a lot of water in it - let is soak over night. You can probably use some cheaper fresh button mushrooms in with the shitakes. The juice will contain good nutrients as well. -jennifer You know it is funny you said that bc I was about to start a thread asking if mushrooms are dangerous to ferrets. On our walk the other day, Koda was very curious about some mushrooms growing in the yard. He kept trying to sniff it, and it looked like he wanted to lick it, but I wasn't sure if it was safe so I kept him away (we do have some toxic mushrooms in AK - like "Toadstools" the red and white spotted ones from fairy tales, they are bad news when eaten lol). Are the White mushrooms that you buy for omelets and pizza and just general whatever ok? (I am not sure if they are the same as white button...I just always buy the same ones and they are called "White mushrooms" haha). I will have to try that - I think he would like them. Are Shitakke mushrooms always dried? Is it ok to feed him dried ones, or should I always rehydrate them? He does tend to always be a bit dehydrated despite being raw fed and having a water bowl instead of a bottle. Not sure why, but perhaps the runny poops are a cause?
|
|
|
Post by sherrylynne on Aug 12, 2010 9:08:59 GMT -5
Leave it to Koda I'd definitely keep him away from ALL mushrooms growing in the wild, just in case
|
|