|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 26, 2010 19:33:37 GMT -5
One of my crew, Blackie, was acting super lethargic and staring into space when I checked on them last night, we drove to our ferret vet today and he is extremely anemic, like 14% red blood cells I think is what she said, they couldn't get enough blood to test his BG even but did get some to send off to their lab, results tomorrow.
She said there is a mass on his spleen and his spleen is enlarged, but if it's lymphoma there's no point in surgery as it's probably already spread and he wouldn't be a surgery candidate anyways. She wants him on high doses of pred, like 1ml every 12 hours. He was literally running around and eating like a pig a few days ago and has gone very quickly to not even wanting to move, we are feeding him soupies often and he did eat part of a mouse last night, he's willing to eat but I think barely has the strength to.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Apr 26, 2010 23:18:58 GMT -5
Is his spleen enlarged or just the mass? How are his stools? Did the vet make any suppositions? I have mine, but I would like to hear what your vet had to say before I make any commitments. Love him, a lot. Hold him, a lot. I will light a healing candle. Good luck ciao
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 27, 2010 6:07:30 GMT -5
His spleen is enlarged and there's a small mass on it I guess, she said it's likely lymphoma but could be something else, I haven't been able to tell if his stool is off, too many others running around, but what set me checking all the ferrets originally was a couple small black poos in one of the pans that I assumed were his.
We gave him the pred last night and fed him, he still eats willingly but has no go at all, just that spacey stare that is breaking my heart. I think I will probably call the local vet today and see if we can make an appt. to help him over the bridge, I want to wait and see what the results of his blood slides are first but it's not looking good.
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Apr 27, 2010 8:43:29 GMT -5
Anemia in ferrets suggests blood loss when coupled with dark/black tarry stools, ulcers come to mind (either in the stomach or high up in the intestines. (Now before everyone panics, some meats such as liver contain a high percentage of blood, so eating such organ meats may produce a dark stool - especially if other lighter meats are not fed with it)
A Mass on the spleen may or may not mean lymphoma/cancer. Enlarged spleen is common in older ferrets - it can indicate a low-grade, smoldering infection or chronic inflammation. In fact, nobody really uderstands what really causes an enlarged spleen indicates.
He may be suffering an insulinomic crash/ blood sugar crisis. An inability to draw blood idicates dehydration where or not it's from blood loss or ot driking enough.
It's probable that a number of things have been going on for quite some time, and something has changed enough to result in crisis. If the crisis is primarily from blood sugar issues, there may be a number of things that can be done to provide your baby with a decent quality of life for some period of time.
Let's hope so. Hugs to you and your little one. We're sending ferret payers your way.
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 27, 2010 10:40:13 GMT -5
Yeah the vet wasn't worried about the spleen being enlarged, we've had that before with other ferrets and said if it wasn't lymphoma we could take it out, they couldn't get enough blood for the glucose so she said that could be an issue as well.
He's not doing the chewing thing most ferrets do with belly issues, he seems eager to eat, just absolutely no energy to move around. I am going to continue feeding him soupies and hope the pred makes a difference. He's on huge doses and we've seen no improvement so far.
The night before we went to the vet we fed him every 4 hours and I fed him twice that morning as well, his gums are very pale though. Still haven't heard on the results.
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 27, 2010 17:30:00 GMT -5
Looks like no test results today, I will have to give the vet a call tomorrow. He's still very lethargic but perks up for eating and eats quite a bit of soupies, haven't seen him eat any kibble though. Is it ok to feed him raw?, it seems like adult prey is more effort then he wants to put in but I have several mouse litters on the ground and he usually loves pinkies, I thought that would be healthier than just duk soup if he'll take it.
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Apr 27, 2010 20:49:27 GMT -5
If his tummy doesn't seem to be an issue, I don't think pinkies would be a problem for him. I'd try a little chicken, beef or pork liver and /or some egg yolk (no egg whites!). These items are high in iron. so is red meat. There is an auto-immune form of anemia (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia) that can affect ferrets. I'm not familiar with this is ferrets, but this issue can be triggered by something toxic to the system. My friend's dog got it from an allergy pill that triggered the condition. Basically, the body starts killing off the young red blood cells before they mature. In my friend's dog's case, the condition was temporary. The prednisone/steriods weakened the immune system such that it was not killing off the blood cells. Over time, the immune system returned to normal, but medications were required for quite some time before the immune system settled down. Anemia alone can make your ferret lethargic. Sending more fert prayers in your direction -jennifer
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 27, 2010 20:54:32 GMT -5
Results are back, didn't get a good sample due to the anemia but there is new red blood cells forming which is a good sign that his body is trying to rebound from whatever the issue is.
She recommends trying out the pred and bringing him back in for a checkup next week, if he's improved we will probably keep it up and if he's still super lethargic with no zest for life we may put him to sleep, I don't think it's much of a life if he is sleeping round the clock only waking when we feed him so hopefully there is some improvement in the next few days.
If he is doing better by the vet appt. we will check the lump and see what it is, if it's lymphoma or something that can be removed or what the deal is. Even if it's not lymphoma I don't know if surgery is the way to go or just leave it and stay on pred. Hopefully by then we can get a BG test done on him as well. I'm going to bring the rest of the crew in for bloodwork and checkups with him. This is one of 3 that I took in for a friend "temporarily" 2 years ago and I am hopefully he will help a bit with the bills but we'll see.
|
|
joclyn
Going Natural
Posts: 159
|
Post by joclyn on Apr 27, 2010 23:45:00 GMT -5
this situation sounds very similar to what i went through last year with my boo.
last spring, he had been looking 'off' and i'd asked the vet about it - nose pale, not as energetic as usual, the spleen visible, some weight loss. vet said 'nothing to worry about' and that the spleen enlargement wasn't anything out of the range of normal and that he was okay.
so, times goes on, he's confirmed as adrenal and started on lupron shots. a different vet does the lupron (she runs a clinic one sunday a month for the shots) and she always does a quick exam. specifically checks the spleen (enlarged spleens go along with being adrenal).
it was getting bigger and his weight still going down so we were both concerned. nothing seemed obviously wrong other than being adrenal and maybe the lupron/melatonin combo wasn't quite cutting it.
a couple months after starting the lupron, he crashed and i took him in to the first vet (who has his full med history) and he was fully anemic. his pcv was only 12 and i went back the next morning with him and oberon as the donor for the transfusion. his count was only at 7 right before they did the transfusion - he's very lucky to have survived with such a low number!
so, it was touch-n-go for a couple weeks. i took him to the other vet for second opinion and did research and contacted an additional vet for further opinions (this was via phone calls and emails). could have been the adrenal that was the issue, could have been lymphoma and could also possibly be infection sitting in the spleen.
with the initial crash situation, we did a full blood work-up and results didn't indicate lymphoma and most things were within normal ranges except for a couple things.
due to his crash and still recuperating from the transfusion (blood count was still on the low side although it did increase each week - which meant his body was making cells once the tranfused blood had died off) and the weight loss he'd experienced and the results of the bloodwork, we opted to treat for infection rather than do exploratory and/or remove the spleen.
well, after some intense dosing of two antibiotics and high doses of prednisolone, he recovered. the spleen went down and his red cell count went up and he regained almost normal activity levels. so, it seems that the issue WAS infection sitting in the spleen.
now, he is back to his normal self - actually, he is acting like a kit most of the time...and he'll be 5 in a couple weeks.
by red blood cells, do you mean pcv (packed cell volume) if yes, anything under 20% is considered in the 'danger zone' and i would recommend you do a transfusion to help boost his system...even if he is producing his own cells. if anything, the influx of cells will just get him past the hump until meds fully kick in.
i'll have to look through paperwork for particulars on doses of the meds he got. it was baytril and clavamox and he also got the prednisolone.
with the anemia, he also developed a bit of a heart murmur - not real bad, still, it was there. that cleared up about a month after the antibiotics treatment had been completed.
it's going to take me a couple days to find the paperwork - since all this happened with him, i also developed some issues and then there is my work. which is a nasty four-letter word and has been for some time, lol. so, needless to say, things aren't too organized here what with not being able to keep things situated with being too busy to begin with and then being ill on top of it.
here are some articles with info:
www.2ndchance.info/ferretanemia.htm
www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=11+2070&aid=2728
www.ferretcentral.org/faq/med/spleen.html
www.ferretsanonymous.com/medical/bdls/bdl_spleen.html
at least you have a bit of direction to go in. for my boo, it's clear that the issue was a 'smoldering' infection in his spleen...today, you'd never know he had two paws over the threshhold of deaths doorway.
i wish you and blackie the best and i'll try to get the info on the med doses, given to boo, to you in the next couple days!
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 28, 2010 6:12:05 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks for all the info you guys, that is great! Once I got back into town I read up on anemia a little, just what miamiferret had and they suggested transfusion as well, I was kind of suprised the vet didn't suggest it but unfortunately she is 2.5 hours away and I can't go back until my next day off which will be next week sometime, however if it's still low then I will have 3 other ferrets with they can use for donors.
I did mean PCV, he seems very slightly better, still perking up for soupies, I tried giving him a half eaten pinkie and chewed on fuzzy (my mouse dispatcher loves the little ones and wasn't happy about giving them up) and he grabbed them but wouldn't eat it. I will try some egg yolk and some of the suggested meats for him.
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Apr 28, 2010 8:59:17 GMT -5
transfusions on ferts are difficult, plus there needs to be some blood to transfuse into his system. If his PVC is movig in the right direction, the he may come through this and be just fine... that smoldering infection thing, whether it be in the spleen or elsewhere is so weird, but it's not all that rare in ferrets either.
Good luck with the healing - let's hope he keeps improving at a steady rate.
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Apr 29, 2010 11:31:04 GMT -5
Today he seems to be a little more energetic, he was up without us waking him up and moving around a bit, he also ran off with a mouse and ate part of it instead of ignoring it, he'd looked interested at the kibble so I tried mice which is always a hit. Baby steps. I have to call tomorrow but we are going to try and get an appt. for next Thursday for a recheck on him.
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Apr 29, 2010 21:45:47 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear he's doing a little better....things can take time to balance out. Keep us posted o what the vet has to say - it you ca get him interested in a little raw liver, that may help a bit as well. -jennifer
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on May 4, 2010 21:17:53 GMT -5
Realized I hadn't updated for a few days, no more spaced out stare and he is getting up on his own to come look for soupies, still a lot of sleeping but no spaced out staring and he doesn't feel like a walking skeleton anymore.
We have cut back feedings to just before pred doses but I have been feeding mice/gerbils every other day or so and he is eating on his own. I can feel two large hardish lumps in his belly, one protruding from his side which must be his spleen? And the other the growth I assume. I wasn't pushing around or anything but you can really feel them when holding him. When we get to the vet again hopefully we can get a good blood sample and see what's up, maybe an xray. Thankfully my vet is pretty reasonably priced. I had to call the vet today as we were almost out of pred, we were using leftover from a different ferret issue last year so she called in a new prescription for a huge bottle, said it's probably a good thing for us to have on hand. The b/f couldn't get a day off this week so the vet trip has been postponed until next Friday, which is ok since he seems to be improving and it's payday, I'll have enough to bring the rest of my crew for sure.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on May 4, 2010 22:50:41 GMT -5
You might just want to go with the xray, it might actually tell you more than the blood work. I find that ferrets don't give up their blood easily and often the blood work has ambiguous results, usually resulting in major guess work on everyone's part. An xray might actually tell you more. I'm not trying to tell you what to do but I know that with my experience this has often been the case. Good luck, keep us posted ciao
|
|