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Post by Forum Administrator on Nov 29, 2009 3:44:50 GMT -5
Name: Mandy Marks HF Forum Username: Mandy 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Can't remember exactly but I learned of it a few months after getting my first fuzzy Ollie. I wasn't able to switch to a raw diet then but am very interested in doing so now.2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to make the full switch. Right now I have two that will eat beef heart and chicken gizzard jerky and five that enjoy freeze dried meats by Animal Food Services as well as Stella and Chewy's. (They also enjoy raw egg yolks as an occasional treat.) I would rather not switch to whole prey but mimic it using raw organ meats and such.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want the best for my babies and I believe that a raw diet would be just that.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I am willing no matter how long it takes... and for a few of my picky ones that may take a while indeed. ^^;
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? I have six, they are all healthy and at a normal weight.
Oliver - "Ollie" Male - 2 years Isabella - "Izzie" Female - 2.5 years Riley - Male - 1.5 years Toby - Male - 1 year Penelope - "Penny" - Female - 1.5 years Eleanore - "Ellie" - Female - 2 years
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Innova Evo Ferret, Red Meat Small Bites, N'bones, beef heart jerky, beef liver jerky, chicken gizzard jerky, Stella and Chewy's Freeze dried Lamb dinner, Animal Food Service Beef and Chicken, Nature's Variety chicken and rabbit, Nupro, Vivify, Wysong Archetypal 1.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I've supplemented them with freeze dried with success for all but Penny. Some of my ferrets are definitely more picky than others. Izzie will eat -anything- so I'm not very worried about her... Ollie and Penny I think will be the hardest to switch.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I look forward to making the switch to raw, yay!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every morning and evening.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Penny
Riley
Ellie
Toby
Izzie
Ollie
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Post by mandy on Nov 29, 2009 9:46:50 GMT -5
So that's me! My meat grinder and I are all ready to go! Now I just need a bit of help deciding what to feed and how to start out. I look forward to getting started!
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Post by luci on Nov 29, 2009 16:47:20 GMT -5
Hi Mandy! I'm Luci (my real name is Tara) and I'm going to be your mentor. I'm really excited to get your little furballs onto a raw diet! I think you'll be so pleased with the results once you get there. A little about me: My Significant Other and I share our home with two cats and one ferret (my little Ghia passed from juvenile lymphoma just this past August.) all of whom are on a prey model/RMB diet. I had wanted ferrets for as long as I knew they existed, but I waited until I was in my *ahem* mid-thirties before I felt that my life was stable enough to give them all the attention, space and stability they needed. After many long talks, hours on the internet researching, reading Ferrets for Dummies cover to cover, meeting with a ferret rescue organization and learning everything we could... we adopted two girls, Fierra and Ghia, in December 2007. Their previous owner had ditched town and left them with his brother, who liked them, but hadn't planned on having pets. An impending move to California prompted him to contact the rescue organization to have them re-homed. The poor things were living in a room covered in poop, eating 8-in-1 Ultra meat flavored cereal, sprayed with fresheners to cover their smell, additives in their water to reduce their smell, etc. etc. You get the idea. It took three months to switch them to EVO kibble. In April, our second cat found us and joined the household. At that point I had been feeding my first cat EVO canned and Evanger's with a couple other high quality canned foods for variety. Once the second cat joined the family the cat food bill was a small fortune. I had already been researching raw diets and this was the kick I needed to jump in and go for it. In early May I switched the cats to raw. No transition needed. I put down raw meat and they ate it. Woo! There were a couple of bumps in the road, but they were easily overcome with a couple of minor changes. I was so excited and by early June I was ready to switch the ferrets. First tried the old standby: boneless chicken breast. Minced it into the smallest pieces ever. They gagged on it. Tried coating the raw bits in smashed kibble. Nope. I purchased a few jars of Gerber's turkey and chicken baby food. Smeared a bit on their noses. Ghia went for it and happily licked the baby food off my finger. Fierra was totally unconvinced. I scruffed her and put a dab on her tongue. And she loved it! For June and July I spoon fed them chicken or turkey baby food every day in addition to their EVO kibble. In August I started trying to sneak some tiny bits of raw turkey into their baby food. They spit it out every time. I started blanching pieces of meat and adding that to the baby food. Didn't work. I blanched 1" cubes of chicken, cut it into kibble sized pieces and coated it in kibble powder. That was the trick that finally did it. This plus the baby food became their diet for the next four weeks. It was a lot of work, but I knew that eventually I would be plunking down a hunk of meat for them the same way I did for the cats. I started making the blanched pieces of meat bigger and added less and less kibble and by Sept. 22, 2008 they were completely off kibble. It was then that I joined this forum and became a newbie in the mentor program. You can read the rest of Fierra and Ghia's journey here: holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newbiearchive&action=display&thread=1669I see you're having success with freeze dried and jerkied meats and some raw. That's great! We'll just need to get all your furs to agree on an all meat diet as being THE thing to do. What meats do you have in the house right now? Many people start with chicken because it's easy, but turkey or pork are also nice options. Always be sure to read labels to avoid additives like salt, brines, spices, etc. in your meats. Feed the best meat your budget will allow and buy organic, pasture fed meats whenever possible to make sure your ferrets are getting optimal nutrition. We'll talk more later about penny pinching ideas to get meats for your business. So, we're off to a great start! It's nice to meet you, Mandy. Let's get this show on the road!
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Post by mandy on Nov 29, 2009 19:36:22 GMT -5
Right now all we have in the freezer is steak (we had a random lady show up yesterday selling them.) I need to hit the grocery tonight or tomorrow, we just moved in last weekend so we're still a little light on the grocery department. What do you suggest I try to get first to make things balanced? I'll probably be starting with chicken since I know I've had limited success with Izzie and Riley eating some raw chicken in the past. I figure maybe I can maybe mix in the meat with the Nature's Variety I have left... that stuff is fairly decent but it's really expensive. ^^; I'm at the ready, just let me know how I should start!
What type of chicken should I buy? Should I stick with just muscle meat at first or go for some organs too?
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Post by luci on Nov 29, 2009 20:30:43 GMT -5
Chicken is usually a good place to start. Some breast and or thigh meat would be easy to work with. If you have the freezer space, go ahead and pick up some hearts, gizzards, and livers. It might be a bit before they'll be interested in trying them, but it would be great to have them around.
What we're going to try and do is sneak in bits of raw into whatever canned or commercial ground that they're presently willing to eat and see how it goes. I think it would be great if you could also leave some raw chunks out and see who is interested in skipping the sneaky approach.
As far as getting things balanced, that will come in time. The mantra of feeding frankenprey/RMBs is, "Balance over time." We generally look at one week's time in hitting all of our nutritional goals. Our goals are: 80% meat 10% bone 5% liver 5% other secreting organs
That is your rough guide. What's great about a natural diet is that we can so easily adjust it for each animal's individual needs.
Fire away with any questions you may have.
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Post by mandy on Nov 30, 2009 7:34:33 GMT -5
I'll put a few medallions of Nature's Variety in the fridge to thaw and stop by the grocery on my way home tonight. Another question, how long is raw safe to leave out, one hour? Two? More? I don't want them to eat anything that would make them sick and I know I'm going to have to watch Riley for stashing. You should have seen the pile of kibble under my bed after we moved. XP
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Post by luci on Nov 30, 2009 11:06:31 GMT -5
Here is a handy dandy guide written up by Jennifer, one of ghe othe mentors:
Here are some general guidelines assuming the meat is cold (thawed, but taken from the fridge)when served and the ambient temperature us 70 degreees. (and food is not sitting in the sun, near a heat source, etc.)
Most ferrets won't eat wet food that starts to dry out - they usually reject older food (unless they're super hungry). So, most ferts will not eat food before it gets as old as is listed below...
Wet Kibble: 4-8 hours Ground meat: 12 hours Freeze-dried Diet (served wet) 12 hours Commercial Raw frozen diet 12 hours Meat chunks: 16 hours Bone-in meat: 24 hours Whole prey (meat exposed): 24 hours Whole prey (no meat exposed) 36 hours Freeze-dried diet (served dry) Over 1 week (the primary concern is palatability rather than bacterial issues)
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Post by mandy on Nov 30, 2009 20:02:21 GMT -5
Well, I just made use of my meat grinder for the first time, yay! I took three Nature's Variety medallions, two chicken and one rabbit and combined that with about an equal portion of ground chicken thigh meat. So far everyone has had a few chomps from it except for Eleanore. I also put a few thigh chunks as well as a thigh bone on the side to see if there would be any takers from those. I'm sure Izzie will move to those once the mush is gone =P
Who knew that I could buy a whole already packaged beef heart from my local small grocery? I sure didn't! I bought one though and it's currently sitting in my fridge with a tub of chicken livers a pack of gizzards and two chicken breasts. How should I store them? I don't think I'll be using it all at once so should I separate it all into little single serving baggies and freeze some?
I'm thinking that Ellie is going to be the one to give me problems. I tried to put a little mush in her mouth and she gave me a look like I was feeding her poison. ><
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Post by luci on Nov 30, 2009 21:23:58 GMT -5
Will Ellie eat the NV patties at all or has she never been interested? A 50/50 mix from their usual might be asking too much from the picky babies.
Go ahead and portion out the stuff in the fridge into meal sized packages and stick them in the freezer. I cut up my boneless meats into one ounce chunks and then package 6oz together. It works for me to be able to grab an ounce to throw in the feeding den whenever it's empty. Seems like I waste less that way. It might take a while, but you'll figure out what works best for you and your crew.
I think all ferret servants (us) are familiar with the why-are-you-trying-to-poison-me? look. I got that plenty from Fierra when I was switching her. My favorite time was actually a few months into being fully raw. My boyfriend and I had purchased some sashimi ahi to make sushi one night and I was offering a taste to the critters. Everyone loved it and was following me around hoping for more. Then I held it out to Fierra. She sniffed it and slowly turned away in that ferret fashion. But since I was offering it by hand she figured she'd try it. She took a bite, gagged and spit it out. $25/lb sashimi ahi and she gagged. Such a snot.
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Post by mandy on Dec 1, 2009 7:14:23 GMT -5
Cutting and freezing meat will be my goal for this morning then. At least the gizzards and livers are already in small pieces. I thought I've seen Ellie eating the NV patties before but... now that I'm really thinking about it I'm not sure. I know she's eaten raw egg yolk... but the patties I'm not sure about. I got Ellie about two months ago from my friend who couldn't handle her anymore. Ellie was a bad attention biter and still will take a chomp out of your ankle if you don't pay attention to her fast enough. Everyone else gobbled the 50/50 mixture, especially Izzie and Toby. How often should I be trying to feed them raw? For now should I just stick to after work or should I make an attempt in the mornings too?
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Post by luci on Dec 1, 2009 14:10:25 GMT -5
I think the more raw available to them the better. What is their set up like? Are they free or caged? How long are they home alone? What do you leave out for them when you're not home?
We need to find Ellie's weakness. What food does she really love?
We need to make sure that no one slips through the cracks. Are you able to watch them eat at least once a day?
I'm excited that it looks like 5 of the 6 are on board already. We'll get Ellie there. A lot of times the fussier ones surprise you.
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Post by mandy on Dec 1, 2009 18:39:38 GMT -5
They're free to roam the back half of the house when we're home and are in their cage while we're at work. Typically on a week day they're out from 6am-8am and again from 6pm - 'till. Weekends they could be out all day or up for most of it depending on our schedule. Up until now when we're not at home they've been getting their Evo mix with some Wysong sprinkled on top.
Ellie's weakness is Vivify. She will do anything to get it. I'm able to watch them eat in the evening, I'm sitting right here watching them as I type this. Everyone is crowded around the plate except for Ellie who is climbing over my lap. She's already walked on my keyboard and deleted my first attempt at a reply. =P She must really be against this switch. lol
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Post by luci on Dec 1, 2009 23:17:27 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with Vivify. Is it kibble?
Can you sort of tell how much each fert is eating?
How do you feel about leaving them with raw in their cage while you're gone? Ellie may get hungry enough to try it. Then when you get home and can watch them we'll come up with a special bribery concoction for her using the Vivify.
What do you think?
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Post by mandy on Dec 2, 2009 7:30:45 GMT -5
Vivify is a skin and coat supplement from Totally Ferret that has emu oil in it. Kinda like Ferretone only better because it has an animal base, I think it's better anyway...
Everyone seems to be eating a good bit of it with Toby eating the most and Izzie a close second. Ollie also really seems to like it. Instead of getting his being let out of the cage cuddles he ran right out to see if the plate of chicken was there like it was yesterday. It was and he immediately started noshing.
So should I just leave raw in the cage with no kibble and hope she eats it or leave both? I know if kibble is available she'll just pass up the raw and go for that... maybe mix some in with the kibble?
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Post by luci on Dec 2, 2009 18:15:23 GMT -5
You say all your ferrets are healthy and strong, yes? If so, it's okay to let them get a little hungry so that they'll be more interested in trying new things. Here is what I would do. Leave raw available at all times and take away the kibble. Hopefully Ellie will get hungry enough and see everyone else excited about the meat and decide to give it a try. When you get home from work and prep their evening meal take Ellie for some quiet time with some raw, a spoon and the Vivify. Try drizzling the oil on just a bit of the raw and offer it on your finger or a spoon. Try to make a game of it. Play, play, play then grab her and see if she'll try it. If she's being stubborn scruff her and dab some on her tongue.
Let all the rest of the ferrets get full bellies on the raw. Try to make sure everyone is getting enough. If Ellie has absolutely refused to eat the raw then give her kibble for overnight. Leave raw available too. In the morning take the kibble away and try again.
Does that sound doable?
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