|
Post by spiritualtramp on Nov 27, 2009 23:22:12 GMT -5
Why would I be upset? Don't be silly! This is about what works for YOU and YOUR KIDS, not me! I know for me, I find that stocking up every four or some months on Hare Today, and then buying the rest of the stuff at the grocery store or farmer's markets, is cheapest. I do buy commercial raw stuff occasionally and in emergencies, but like I said, I find that is expensive. Do what works for you, and that is what will make me happy I'm not surprised Reks eats more overnight - ferrets tend to eat more overnight in general. Their natural feeding times would tend towards dawn and dusk, and when given the chance this is how their bodies work even in our domestic situations. I give slightly larger meals in the evening than in the morning for this reason!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Nov 28, 2009 12:59:41 GMT -5
Wow, four months worth?! To save money buying Hare Today, I'm guessing it's better to buy in bulk? For some reason, Derek and I like buying things a little at a time, and picking up more when we need it. I know, we're weird When Derek makes more (he will be starting out making $45,000 a year, which is almost triple what we make now), I will be able to afford a month supply of Hare Today (which is as much bulk buying as we can take ). Hopefully Derek will be able to get a teaching job during the Spring semester (cross your fingers!) The floofs did great last night! They all ate a TON! They almost finished the whole bowl which would have left them with nothing overnight Reks still needed to eat out of the spoon, but he loved it! Sari and Pan went for it right away. I wet down the rest for it to last longer overnight. I woke up two hours later thinking I was hearing Reks drinking water. It sounded like he was drinking more than normal which I started freaking out about. So, I turned the light on, and it was the sound of him eating! Hopefully I can get him eating on his own completely!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Nov 30, 2009 3:15:25 GMT -5
Drum roll please... Reks ate from the bowl! By himself! He didn't need any coaxing at all today, just dove right in (well, slowly after smelling it and licking his lips a couple times first ) I wish I had the camera. It was so cute all of them with their squished soupie faces and squinty eyes, all eating out of a kinda small bowl (it barely fits all of their heads! ) I need to get a bigger bowl... So, where do we go from here? Do you think I should start slowly reducing the water OR slowly reduce the uncanny? Tomorrow I'm buying a trial size bag of NV lamb to try, and hopefully they eat it with the same enthusiasm. If so, I think that will be a big step!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 1, 2009 2:19:39 GMT -5
Reks is now eating it consistently! He was actually the first one to the bowl today! Also, the funny thing is yesterday and today, I forgot to add olive oil, fish oil, or Vivify! One thing I noticed was on the more successful days, I used the beef & egg uncanny. On the not so successful days, I used the pheasant & fruit (yes, I pick the fruit out ) I bought 8 beef & egg packets and 7 pheasant & fruit. I will try the pheasant uncanny tomorrow to see if I get the same success. If so, they are definitely broadening their horizons If not, I will try to make the beef & egg last. Maybe I can get it mostly out of the mix before I run out!
|
|
|
Post by spiritualtramp on Dec 1, 2009 21:44:58 GMT -5
Wow, fantastic news!! I'm so excited about Reks! Personally, I would start slowly reducing the Uncanny. Water is (mostly) free, whereas the Uncanny will run out at some point. Hopefully by now they're liking the meats enough to not miss the Uncanny much - but I emphasize the SLOW part of this. And if for any reason one of them (ahem, REKS) refuses to eat after noticing the reduction, immediately back up. We need them all on the same page as you are and to do this with as little stress as possible. Because we know what stress means in a fuzzy --- POOP. Sorry I have been a little MIA this week, things have been crazy around here. Friday through Sunday I will be gone, as well, but I will check up before I leave and when I come back. You can always contact Giuli or Heather if you have an emergency, too, and I'm unavailable. I use a few bowls for feedings, they don't all fit otherwise I wish I could see all of your kids squashed around the bowl enjoying their meal!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 3, 2009 0:46:32 GMT -5
It's np, life happens! Well, here's what happened the past two days. Yesterday (Dec. 1st) I made it with the pheasant uncanny. Sari started eating it as if she didn't care, Pan didn't want it at first, but ate some off the spoon (I caught her getting up later that night to eat it), and Reks didn't want it either, but ate a little off the spoon too (he too got up later that night and ate!). They at least tolerate it, but I honestly think since it's been going SO much better with the beef and egg, I think I can get them switched before I run out of it! Today, I actually fed them at 2pm today instead since I was going to be in Austin until late. I made 1/3 of a packet uncanny (beef and egg this time : with 1 oz ground mice to see how it would go. Pan and Sari ate it happily, and Reks was a little hesitant at first. I held the spoon up to him until he tasted it, then he ate it like crazy! He actually after two spoonfuls pushed the spoon out of the way to get to the bowl and went to town! He actually licked the bowl clean! I'm going to feed it this way two more times (to finish off the packet) and then try 1/4 packet if they are eating it consistently! I finally picked up the NV trial size lamb. Do you think I should wait to introduce it until they are eating the ground mice by itself OR should I start trying to introduce it now? I might introduce it if tomorrow goes well with the 1/3 packet still. Are you going to Winter Nats on Friday? Good luck and have fun! Tell me how it goes, and post pics if you have any!
|
|
|
Post by spiritualtramp on Dec 7, 2009 15:53:13 GMT -5
Wow, go Reks! That's awesome! You can definitely try introducing the NV now. My kids live NV for some reason, and I never had to work with them to get them to eat it. I think lowering to 1/4 a packet of Uncanny in a couple days, if you haven't done so already, sounds fine. If they're all eating this consistently with the 1/3, they likely won't notice the difference! Yep, I went to the Winter Nats! I'll get some pictures up soon It was a lot of fun! Diesel got first in Shelter Specialty and 8th in Champagne. Morgan got 11th Passport Required and 5th in Champagne. Neither placed in Late-Alter which isn't really a surprise, but hey, we had a blast and got to hang out with some great people!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 7, 2009 16:24:41 GMT -5
Go Diesel! It makes me want to try showing Reks (he's got a great build for a Marshall ferret) Captain Morgan is such a cutie, I'm surprised he didn't do better! He's got an awesome build, and who can say no to that face Placing is an achievement in itself though. Especially running up against other breeder ferrets! It sounds like you had fun, wish I got to go I jumped the gun and tried the NV lamb with 1/3 packet uncanny, and only Sari ate it Both Reks and Pan got up later that night and ate it though after I added some ground mice to it. The next night I made 1/3 packet uncanny with 1/2 oz ground mice and 1/2 oz NV lamb. Just Sari ate it, lol. Reks and Pan again got up later that night and ate it. I had more success last night since I decided I'm cutting out the NV all togther (I will tell you why in a minute). I made 1/3 packet uncanny with 1oz ground mice to get them back on track. Pan and Sari ate it happily while Reks was being hesitant again. So I fed him by spoon, but once he realized what it was, he ate a TON (still from the spoon, but he loved it!). I heard someone get up and finish the rest off late last night, but I was so tired, I didn't look to see who it was. Ok, so this is why I hate NV now. holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=raw&action=display&thread=4225 I decided since I like primal better anyways, and they almost were switched the first time with primal and uncanny (same method as I'm doing now), I decided they will first be switched to primal. I want them eating at least three protein sources before adding RMB's. When I do that, I want to switch them to half primal (primal in the evening or something) and follow a prey model for the AM feedings. I forgot where I read your menu, but I really like it. I want to do something like that for the AM feedings. Anyways, I bought primal turkey yesterday to try some with them today, but mixed with the mice. I noticed their formulas don't smell weird like NV too, so hopefully it won't be a turn off to them like the NV was.
|
|
|
Post by spiritualtramp on Dec 7, 2009 17:52:24 GMT -5
NV's response to you isn't surprising to me, and to be honest I think Jennifer is right, the organ that they might count as organ probably includes a lot of muscle organs. I feed NV occasionally, more as a special 'fun' meal every few weeks because the kids like it, I can get it in a few more hard-to-find varieties, and it's super easy! So, your skepticism is valid but do remember that no commercial raw is perfect and variety is the best thing you can do for the kids. So do with that info what you think is best.
Showing is a lot of fun! I don't show my Marshall kids (Pilot, Ranger and Tank) but Diesel (who is a DMK) and Morgan (from Novel Beginnings) do okay, and like to get to visit and travel with me. And it's educational in the way that you learn about their structure, and what is 'ideal' in a ferret. Morgan does okay, he'd do much better if he wasn't so pudgy. He has good bone mass and a good head, and pretty good hips. I'm hoping by spring, if I can make it to that show, he'll have shed off some winter chub and maybe will do better.
I can post you a copy of my menu if you want. It's always a work in progress (what isn't?) but it's a solid basis that gives me flexibility depending on budget and time, without sacrificing nutrition. They do well on it (maybe too well, after all those 'pudgy' comments!) It can easily be adjusted to a once-a-day menu for your circumstance and desires, too!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 7, 2009 19:38:00 GMT -5
The only reason I was going to toss the NV idea wasn't because of the composition (like you and Jennifer said, it's best to feed a variety for this reason!), but from their second response basically saying they wouldn't tell me the percentages for each (again, even if I knew, I would just feed variety...but they got defensive about it and hide info unlike Primal). After getting upset about it, I am still thinking about adding NV for the variety anyways, but not until they are switched to at least ground with no uncanny. I am a true pet food snob Sorry for my rant Anyways, ferrets are cute when they're pudgy Pan gets pudgy, but Reks actually just gets bigger, but not a whole lot of fat. He's solid muscle. I think I might show him when he is fully switched. The only thing he needs work on is his head and neck could be a little more muscley. That'll come with eating whole stuff! I would love to see your menu to give me a good goal to set I have a pretty good HEB near me that sells weirder poultry and red meats than others (they have quail and duck too!). Also, I just found out about a farmers market, and they sell all sorts of stuff, even goat!
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 8, 2009 9:21:16 GMT -5
YAY! Got the floofs back on track! Reks ate by himself yesterday with no assistance! I just made 1/3 packet uncanny with 1oz ground mice. I'm going to feed the same tonight just to be sure he's staying consistant. Of course, when I came back up with the camera to take a picture of all their faces squished in the bowl together, the camera died It needs new batteries...it always does this when I run and get the camera to take a cute picture, of course. Tomorrow night, I'll try a little primal turkey in there with the ground mice. I only have 2 more ounces worth of the ground mice, so I'm going to add the turkey to see if I can get them eating 1/3 packet with the turkey too, when the time comes. If I can get them eating that with just 1/3 packet, I'll try the 1/4 packet next time.
|
|
|
Post by spiritualtramp on Dec 8, 2009 11:40:42 GMT -5
I'm glad they're back on track with little problems! Sometimes they overreact and sometimes they don't, it's hard to know when and why they'll do it, too!
You're lucky to have a butcher and farmer's market nearby that sells some of the more exotic stuff. I buy that sort of stuff from Hare-Today usually, though around the holidays duck can be found in the grocery store. I wish I had a local source of goat, though - my guys loooooove goat, even more than lamb! And they will bark at each other over lamb!
Here's my current weekly menu:
Sunday: am: hearts & gizzards pm: bone-in fowl Monday: am: bone-in rabbit pm: bone-in fowl Tuesday: am: pork (boneless) pm: bone-in fowl Wednesday: am: liver or other visceral organs pm: bone-in fowl Thursday: am: lamb (boneless) pm: bone-in fowl Friday: am: bone-in fowl or rabbit pm: soups, sometimes with rotation of frozen crushed greens or pumpkin Saturday: am: boneless bison, rabbit, turkey or other fowl pm: bone-in fowl
The selections go like this: bone-in fowl can be either chicken, CGH, pheasant, turkey, duck, or quail - it varies week by week depending on what I have available.
I try to shake up the cuts of each offering so that even if they get chicken twice in a row, it's different parts of the chicken. Buying whole cut-up hens is economical and a great way to add subtle variation.
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday I also give Pilot a noon-time soupies, just to keep her weight up. I may end up cutting that out once her hormones calm down (she just had adrenal surgery November 11th.)
After reading Heather and Jennifer's posts about nanogreens I do occasionally (about once a month or so) add a tablespoon of crushed up frozen greens (Heather's suggestion.) It so far hasn't shown me any good or bad in the way of nutrition but I figure if nothing else it's giving them a bit of roughage. The pumpkin I do occasionally, usually just once or twice during shedding season.
The kids get mice a couple times a week as a snack - Morgan and Diesel LOVE them but the others don't care either way. Pilot and Tank will munch the crunchy bits if they are hungry and Ranger won't touch them at all.
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 10, 2009 16:26:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the schedule! I will work with you on mine when it comes time, so I can have a solid schedule, too! The past two nights have been great! They are all eating 1/3 packet uncanny with 1 oz ground mice. Now, they are out of mice Tonight I'm trying the Primal turkey grind with them (the store I bought it at was out of the primal turkey formula). Hopefully, I can get them eating this with 1/3 packet uncanny as well. If so, I will finally make the leap to 1/4 packet. At this point, it's actually not much uncanny at all!
|
|
|
Post by spiritualtramp on Dec 11, 2009 0:13:32 GMT -5
Nope it really isn't! They are doing great. How do they like the turkey grind?
|
|
|
Post by ferretdroogies on Dec 13, 2009 14:17:17 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't posted. We needed more ziplock bags to portion out the turkey grind. we ended up portioning 2lbs into just three ziplock bags We finally got ziplock bags to portion it with the next day. Finally last night it was defrosted enough to try with them. Turkey is officially going to be their base protein for switching! It's a good substitute for chicken since they won't be getting it because of Pan. It was a BIG hit! I was taking my chances mixing it with just 1/3 packet since it was a totally different protein than the one they had been eating, and since they totally rejected anything with the NV lamb in it I thought I was going to be throwing most of it out. Reks seemed to enjoy it even more than the ground mice! And the best part? We can buy it locally! Tonight I'm finishing the 1/3 packet that's left. Tomorrow night, they will be getting only 1/4 finally if tonight still goes well! I only have 2 more packets beef/egg uncanny, so I'm going to order more just in case. Maybe I'll get lucky, and by then they will only be eating 1/4 packet or non!
|
|