jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 22, 2009 21:45:08 GMT -5
What about bones? I know that some of the larger beef bones are probably beyond their capabilities, but are there any types/sizes (all raw) that I should steer clear of?
Also, what about turkey? Is it too lean?
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 23, 2009 9:19:29 GMT -5
Bones from any animal chicken/rabbit sized or smaller are considered edible. And certain non- weight bearing bones from others, like turkey necks or ribs, although you'll probably have to segment those. Any other bones, like turkey leg/thigh, duck leg/thigh, etc. could cause them to chip their teeth gnawing on them. Although they could probably eat the cartiledge end of them. Pork bones will do the same, and needless to say, and larger animal. Mine get chicken bones(they still won't touch the thigh/drumstick, but then, most won't unless you crack them well), rabbit, quail, duck, turkey neck, and of course other whole prey. It does take a while, though, for them to build up the jaw strength to eat any of these. Wing tips are a great starter bone, as are quail.
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 24, 2009 22:22:07 GMT -5
Mori and Tommy both tried the chicken tonight. They didn't eat much, but the did try it. I mixed chicken and pork tonight. Mistake. All of the chicken is gone, and the pork pieces carefully left.
Also, we're seeing quite a bit of runny stools amongst the meat eaters. Is this normal? If so, how long do you think it will last?
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 25, 2009 22:09:09 GMT -5
That's wonderful that Mori and Tommy both had some of the chicken! And it wasn't a mistake mixing in the pork. That way, they get accustomed to the smell of a different meat. It sometimes takes a while til they'll actually eat something new. Try cutting the newer meats smaller than the one they are used to. Ferrets are basically lazy by nature, and will generally prefer something they don't have to work at . It's the only way I got mine to taste anything new! The looser, runny stool is actually really normal for the transition. They are getting accustomed to a new food. Also, stools from raw fed ferrets are not only smaller, but looser as well, since they don't have the carbs binding it together. Mine still have softer, looser stools, a year after transitioning. I just watch for diarrhea, which can happen from time to time when they are lazy, and don't eat enough bone. If the stools are too loose, try adding in some powdered egg shell, or even pumpkin for the bulk.
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 26, 2009 22:30:22 GMT -5
Well, turkey wings are not a great hit. I cut them up - I would have thought that Midas would be ecstatic - HUGE wings (he loves wing tips more than anything else). I mixed in a little ground chicken wing and duck soup dust for flavor. We'll see what's left in the morning. So far, the meat eaters have been clean-plate-club members.
I put out kibble with ground chicken to Londo, Bella, G'Kar, Zoey and Inara tonight. We'll see how it goes.
For Tommy, Otis, and Moriarty, it's about 70% chicken (course ground, not puree) to 30% kibble. I'm still adding duck soup powder and a little ferrevite with everyone's meal.
I picked up some stew beef, turkey wings, and a couple of cornish game hens today. For organ meat, it's liver, gizzards and hearts. I even went to a local butcher shop (I may order chicken necks from them), but they will not sell any other organ meats. Against FDA rules. Strange.
I did see turkey necks at the store, along with pork necks(?). Both looked like the bones would be too big for the ferrets to handle.
I'll keep you posted...
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 26, 2009 23:13:52 GMT -5
Actually, mine do far better with turkey necks than the wings. The wing bones are to dense for them, I think, other than the tips. I do have to section and chop them, though. The bone there is fairly porous. And congrats with Tommy, Otis, and Moriarty! Sounds like they're well on their way Once they've been eating that mix for a few days, try upping the meat to kibble ratio again. And I'll keep my fingers crossed with the other 5 that they go for the chicken! I'd also forgotten to mention this til now! Casey's Hidden Pantry has a sample bag of a variety of freeze dried meats, so you can find out which(if any) they'll eat, without having to get an entire bag of something that will go to waste. Here's the link if you want to check it out: www.caseyshiddenpantry.com/food.html just scroll to the bottom. Unfortunately, it has no Wysong's, but she may be able to throw some in if you ask her to.
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 29, 2009 15:56:02 GMT -5
The 3 white guys (sounds like the beginning of a joke) - Tommy, Moriarty, and Otis all had ground chicken for breakfast - only a very light dusting of kibble crumbs. Clean plate club! So, they'll get that for another couple of days (with some other meats ground up and mixed), then on with the bigger (chopped) pieces.
I tried a raw egg with the meat eaters. Midas and Pippin tried it - they ate a little. The rest got mixed in with their dinner.
I also found ox tails at the grocery store. So, they tried that with their breakfast. Not too bad. The bones are pretty thick, but I imagine they are pretty porous, with lots of cartilage.
I did find a butcher who will sell me chicken necks (none of the local grocers carry them) - but I have to buy 40 lbs worth! Good thing we have a large freezer.
Not much progress on the hold outs. When I grind up the next batch of chicken parts, I'll puree some and do a little scruffing.
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 29, 2009 22:45:23 GMT -5
Sounds like their doing well(other than the recalcitrant ones ) When I get turkey necks, I usually buy them by the 30lb box, but it does last for a while. And yes, oxtails are fine. I wish I could find them here. Maybe if I got off my duff and went to the ethnic markets, I'd have more luck Why these little devils will willing eat things like cloth and foam rubber, vegetables, etc., but turn up their respective noses at foods that are perfectly natural for them, who knows
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 30, 2009 12:53:48 GMT -5
Heh! Yeah, I need remote-control-button flavored chicken. One of the most recalcitrant ones (Londo) likes to decapitate his stuffed animals, then chew on the stuffing - strange boy. I think my toughest sell for the remaining kibble eaters will be Bella. She eats kibble period. Doesn't like any treats, ferretone, duck soup, nothing. We even tried raisons and other various no-nos.
I tried sneaking in a couple of small wing tips into the ground chicken for Moriarty, Tommy, and Otis. They carefully removed them from the bowl and devoured the ground stuff. Can't fool them!
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 30, 2009 13:20:40 GMT -5
Sherrylynn,
How does this sound for a feeding schedule? It's based somewhat on Giuli's schedule: Ferret Menu
Monday AM Chicken wings PM Chicken thigh
Tuesday AM Turkey wings PM Chicken wings
Wednesday AM Ox tail PM Chicken thighs
Thursday AM Chicken wings PM Stew beef
Friday AM Chicken gizzards, hearts PM Turkey necks
Saturday AM Egg and liver PM ½ Cornish hen
Sunday AM Lamb chunks PM ½ Cornish hen
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 30, 2009 22:02:29 GMT -5
That looks pretty good to aim for! You'll find as you go along, the menu will mutate somewhat, as some meats become more available, and others are sometimes harder to find. As long as you switch meat for meat, and bone for bone, you'll do fine As for the bone, they still won't have the jaw strength needed quite yet. They'll develop that as they work up to larger chunks, and wing tips, but it will come. Unfortunately, you'll probably wind up doing the "scruff and stuff" method with your stubborn little Bella. They really can be brats at times. Well. Frequently. If not most of the time
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 30, 2009 22:28:33 GMT -5
I'm seeing small bits of bone in their stools. Is this normal?
The ones who have converted, go at it with gusto - bone crunching and all. Pippin actually becomes defensive of "his" piece of chicken, and will hiss at the others, and run away if anyone approaches him while he's enjoying his prize.
We went on a major shopping run, and picked up lots of chicken parts - all bagged and frozen. We should be set for a month or so.
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 31, 2009 9:27:50 GMT -5
Yes, the bone in the stool is quite normal for transitioning ferrets. Their stomach acids are strengthening to deal with it every day. It won't be long before it's not even there anymore. Oh yeah, just to let you know, so you don't freak when you see it(I almost did!), when they've eaten a good sized chunk of fat, it will come out as whitish poops. There will be part normal, part white. Either that, or what will look ALMOST seedy, but in reality will be little pieces of fat in the stool. Scared the bejeepers out of me first time I saw either! I can't believe how quickly your guys have turned around with this! Pippin fighting for his chicken! That is wonderful. I love it when one gets either end of a piece of meat, and neither will let go. The hissing is hilarious! Now- we just have to work on the more stubborn ones!
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jon
Going Natural
RAW FEEDER
Posts: 109
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Post by jon on Aug 31, 2009 22:04:51 GMT -5
Tommy takes a few bites, and Moriarty chows down! I put them into the meat graduates cage at dinner time, and let them have a go at it. I had scruffed and stuffed Tommy for two small bites, and a few minutes later, he showed up at the cage and wanted in. I put him and Mori in with chunks of wing and thigh. So, starting tomorrow, they get the same as the grads.
I also put their chicken mush up with the kibble eaters. Inara and Londo sniffed it, then walked away. So, I mixed in a little kibble. Londo was still not impressed, but Inara ate a few bites.
So, we're halfway there. 6 down, 6 to go.
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Post by sherrylynne on Aug 31, 2009 22:18:49 GMT -5
We're getting there! Have I told you lately you are doing an amazing job, considering you are switching, not 1, not 4, but TWELVE ferrets? Wow And told you the scruff and stuff can work! Just usually not quite that fast
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