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Post by faunafreak on Apr 8, 2009 20:09:27 GMT -5
I could have sworn I posted on Monday . . . Well anyway, the ferrets didn't finish their soup Sunday OR Monday night, so I don't know if they ate any of the raw. They didn't get any yesterday because I had to go out of town and didn't get back until today, but they went into the soup pretty quickly when I made it for them. Those final pieces of lamb were never eaten, either. I'm going to keep putting a little bit of puree over Morphia's food, but I have to be careful. She didn't finish what I gave her Monday night, and by Tuesday morning it was disgusting. I've got to go out and buy some more canned anyway - I'll see if I can get some venison or rabbit from the shop where I get Evo food. I cut up some of the leftover chicken for Skit, which she ate quite happily (but only a few pieces). Keller ate some smaller pieces that I cut up for him, and I think he snagged a chunk out of Skit's bowl. I cut some tiny pieces for Ushba and Llullu, and dripped Dermcaps over them. Ushba ate the four pieces I gave him (he only hesitated over a bit of skin and fat I gave him - texture maybe?), and Llullu ate her four pieces as well - though she needed a little more Dermcap gravy as encouragement. She kept trying to chew the pieces up and spit them out when they weren't "tasty" anymore Even Oatmeal got 3 slivers of the chicken (I don't want to give him too much, but I do want him to get used to the texture of raw meat) Just to let you know, the Dermcaps ingredients are: Safflower oil, Fish oil, Borage seed oil, and di-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (source of Vitamin E). They get .5 mL daily I just cooked a piece of chicken and put it in Anna's bowl. She's sniffed at it, but doesn't seem interested in eating it I really hope she doesn't have to see US eating it for her to do so
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Post by Heather on Apr 8, 2009 23:09:46 GMT -5
Ahhh the infamous cyberspace forum disappearance....been there done that . I posted the same message 3 times one night and finally gave up in total frustration That pureed canned stuff won't probably keep at all, it will be disgusting if kept out overnight Move very slowly with Morphia, just tsp increases at a time and maybe only adding more once a week depending on how well it sits on her tummy. I think I only increased Samurai's canned to raw meat ratio about once a week, allowing his digestive system to grow accustomed to eating that new mix. If he started to show signs of nausea or threw up right after eating or multiple times then I moved back to the previous mix and waited another week. Sounds like everyone else is progressing well in the chunked meat dpt. Very good work. Impressive Sounds like you got most everyone to try a little bit...that's great. You could always pretend to eat Anna's meat ....num num ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 9, 2009 19:20:24 GMT -5
I will be moving slowly with Morphia - I picked up some canned food today from a local doggy day care - The brand is called "Wellness"- and it's labeled grain-free. I got beef, turkey, and salmon. We'll see how she (and the others - I'm thinking about using these for taste variety) does with them. Skit and the fuzzies ate some more chicken today - although I had a bit of a fight with Ushba and Llullu, because I didn't cut it into tiny pieces like I did yesterday. I'll have to go back to the tiny pieces. Even with the Dermcap coating, it took a LOT of coaxing to get them to eat the chunk of chicken. I'd swear they whimpered a little bit while chewing on it. I gave Keller and Skit each a rat pup last night - I can't find anything in the ferret room (fingers crossed), and Skye says he threw away a half-eaten mouse that was in Skit's bowl this morning. Anna DID end up eating her chicken last night, so I cooked some pieces for her again today. They're sitting in her bowl now. I think maybe I'm putting too much soup down - they ate it today, but haven't finished it. I've noticed they really don't seem interested in it once it's cold. We were going to have some tuna tonight, but Skye opened the packaging and thought it looked spoilt (it was a bit iridescent). He cooked it without any seasoning and we put it in the fridge for the critters. Do you think that will be ok to feed them?
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Post by Heather on Apr 10, 2009 1:17:46 GMT -5
Part of the joy and frustration about raw feeding is that you start to learn what you can and cannot get away with. Obviously, your guys still like their food in tiny pieces That's great that Keller and Skit are eating the rat pups. That's looking promising. You can try the fish...the worst case is that they absolutely refuse to eat it. These little bums should be able to eat meat that's slightly off and you've cooked it too...so....it should be ok. I wouldn't leave it around for too long though. Just be aware that if it's just turning or slightly off you're probably looking at a few hours that it can be left in their bowls. Good luck, I will check in with you tomorrow and see if your guys were interested in the fish. All of my guys like fish, and it's a good protein source. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 10, 2009 21:58:24 GMT -5
Tuna - Skit: Yes, but not a lot. Morphia: I gave her a *tiny* piece, which she enjoyed, but I'm waiting for the gastrointestinal reaction before she gets any more. Anna: Not that I've seen. Ferrets: Not really, though Keller did eat some of the commercial ground that I've been giving Skit. The fuzzies still aren't finishing their soup, so I took their kibble out tonight and left the soup in the cage. Lulu sounds like something is stuck in her throat, so I mixed some olive oil into the soup tonight. Also, I think someone's poops are getting BIGGER - is that normal?
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Post by Heather on Apr 10, 2009 23:08:18 GMT -5
Larger stools...hmmm. Captain Jack and Calypso appear to have been doing this. I think some of it has to do with how well processed certain foods are. They've only been on raw now for about 3 months and some of the new foods appear to create larger stools. Are these formed stools? I agree with your observation, that your guys are probably topping up on kibble, rather than finishing their soupy. I found myself doing something similar to what you're doing now. I removed the kibble during the day, when they were out and had access to raw foods 24/7 and gave them their kibbles at night when they were confined to their cages. The reason for me switching in this mannner is that I have some hard core kibble addicts who are eating raw. If I were to offer kibbles, they would go back to eating kibbles again, also Merlyn and Samurai (kitties) are kibble addicts and would steal all the ferret kibbles. Then I would be in the same problems as you have with Morphia with Samurai puking everywhere. Could Lullu have a hairball, pumpkin might help that? It would be great if Morphia could tolerate tuna (it's not particularly good for them, we're talking canned right? fresh is good for them though) Poor Anna I can see she's going to give us some real problems trying to convince her that anything other than her kibbles is good for her. I will check in with you tomorrow and see if your guys ate all their soupy or if they decided to hunger strike. My fingers are crossed for you. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 11, 2009 8:53:46 GMT -5
Sometimes the larger stools are formed, sometimes not. There was still soupie left this morning, but not as much as I'd put in last night. I think they're eating/drinking it until all the liquid is gone, then leaving the porridge. The poo in the cage was greenish white and liquidy, too. Not all of it - just one or two puddles. This morning I cut the amount of their soup in half, and put in the ground meat. They didn't want it - so I mixed in a good squirt of ferretone. That worked They still didn't finish it, but they were at the bowl for a few minutes before leaving to explore. The tuna is not canned - it's the tuna steak that Skye wasn't sure about eating, so we cooked it for the animals.
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Post by Heather on Apr 11, 2009 14:52:27 GMT -5
Sounds to me like they're licking the liquid too...and that may be the weird poopies...silly little ferts. Let me know if they're taking to the raw in their soupy...this should be were we're going with this. It's great that they decided to eat some of it. Hopefully we can convince them to eat more of it. I wouldn't add any more than what you've added today for a little while until they get used to having it in their soupy. Ok, yes, raw's better but cooked fish is fine too. I know a number of people who won't feed raw fish to their furbabies...no reason just their own preference, they won't eat it raw themselves I will check in with you later and see how things are going. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 12, 2009 22:52:33 GMT -5
Ok, so they finished off the food in their bowl last night - so today, I waited a few hours before feeding them again, then gave them their soup. This time - there was only slightly less than a spoonful left when they were done. I think I'll start doing that more often I thawed out a rat pup each for Skit and Keller (I'm out of the hoppers). Keller apparently ate his (with or without help; I still haven't figured that out), but Skit just tossed hers around for a bit, so when she got tired of it, I gave it to Keller. This morning, no rat - so it seems that he ate 2 in the last day and a half (sans feet and tails, again - guess he doesn't care for them). Morphia apparently did NOT take to the tuna as well as I thought - It just took longer to find the puke, since I didn't hear her *sigh* Skit wouldn't eat it after that first day, either, so I guess it was too far gone even for them. I have no problem feeding raw to my animals - I like sushi and sashimi myself
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Post by Heather on Apr 12, 2009 23:20:51 GMT -5
Ok,...we cook for the ferrets and cats and save the raw fishes for momma Ok, so the raw in the thicker soupy was well eaten. I would do it a couple more times and then add a little more raw. Great stuff. Keller's back to himself and eating his rats with gusto, that's great news (I noticed that Lady "B" leaves mouse tails and feet??? As far as I know she eats adult rat tails..dentalfloss ) That's too bad that the tuna didn't sit with Morphia, but with her stomach being as finicky and the possibility of the fish being slightly off...don't rule the fish out yet. How's her ground up canned food doing? Still sitting ok and being eaten? Any luck getting Anna to try anything? I will check in on you tomorrow and see how things are doing. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 13, 2009 22:21:21 GMT -5
Hmm. They didn't eat as much tonight - though Keller did find and eat some of Skit's ground when I let the ferrets out. Anna's still a no go, and Morphia stopped eating the last can I opened, so I tossed it and am going to open up a different can.
I have a question about something. I was told by a guy (who does feed raw and grain-free kibble to his pets) that he's seen a lot of dogs who were fed raw from puppyhood - with little to no kibble in their diet - end up with highly sensitive stomachs in later life. He said it's due to them not getting a complex diet while developing, and urged me to feed Skit "grain-free" kibble supplemented by raw meat until she is at least 2 years old and no longer developing. It sounded odd to me, but I would like a different opinion. The last time I took one of the kitties to the vet, I mentioned wanting to switch to raw, and Dr. Steele was very supportive - she said one of her technicians feeds a raw diet to his dog, which according to her (at about 10-12 years) has the teeth of a 1 year old. She didn't mention any concerns about a raw diet before age 2. Have you heard anything like this? Hope all is well with you and your business
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Post by Heather on Apr 13, 2009 23:05:08 GMT -5
I wonder what Anna's key is...did you have a look at the switching tips that I posted? Maybe, Morphia's canned food got too old?? I've never heard that but Mithrandir is my first from "scratch" puppy (he's now 1 yr). Shakespeare was 4 yrs old and Mushu was 2 when I started feeding raw. So full grown. Now, the breeder that I bought Mithrandir from feeds raw and her dogs go back 3 generations of raw diets. All her puppies have been raw fed. There doesn't appear to be any stomach issues. This fellows statement does resemble some warnings that I got from a vet who told me that my puppy would grow much too fast and have huge health issues. I've not seen either problem. Raw fed pups have a tendency to grow slower than their sibblings and put on better bone and muscle. It doesn't mean that they are smaller in the end, just grow slower and steadier without the huge spurts that you see. I suppose that it would also depend on the breed, but Mithrandir is an Irish Wolfhound and there are all sorts of health issues within the breed and like all giant breed dogs, when fed kibble appear to put on huge growth spurts and then suffer structure problems. I honestly don't know why a dog would suffer from finicky tummies as they age because of a raw diet...it may have been an old age thing (sometimes old age can make for some tummy upsets) I know that Shakespeare wouldn't have survived to be 13 if he had been on kibble. His teeth had never been mechanically or surgically cleaned and the vet actually asked me who had done his teeth, when I brought him in to see her just before he passed on. Perhaps, as your vet is supportive of your diet change you could possibly take this up with her. Just some ideas. I will check in with you tomorrow and see how things are going ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 14, 2009 23:16:07 GMT -5
Today was pumpkin day - while I was stirring it, I let Keller and Oatmeal lick a bit off my finger. When I put the soup down, Keller didn't even need encouragement - he just dug right in once he figured out where the bowl was (poor little blind/deaf guy ) Ushba and Llullu needed encouragement to eat, but settled down pretty quickly. Oatmeal fought like I was trying to bathe him or something. He finally ate, but only as long as I was holding him so he couldn't twist away. Maybe he and Anna are teaming up? I opened the can of salmon and gave Morphia a small portion with her kibble, and mixed in a little with Skit's ground as well. Morphia ate most of her salmon . I put the kibble up (cause both Keller AND Skit will eat any kibble they come across ). Later I go to put the ferrets up, and what do I find but MORPHIA eating SKIT'S ground raw with the canned salmon I'm glad she ate some, but now I'm worried she'd going to vomit, then refuse to eat the bloody salmon *sigh* I did try giving some to Anna, and she opted not to eat the kibble in her bowl rather than risk getting any salmon in her mouth. Out of frustration, I smeared some on her tongue anyway (not a lot). She was not happy. Guess as soon as we have the money I'll be going out and getting more chicken, since she was at least interested in that
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Post by Heather on Apr 14, 2009 23:33:35 GMT -5
Sounds like all in all you had a reasonably successful day....How's Morphia? Still holding her own, not vomiting .... maybe you've found her switching tool?? I will keep my fingers crossed. You may have to sit with Oatmeal to get him to eat until he gets the hang of it, silly little one. He probably will get better at it as time goes on. You know, I found myself doing the exact same thing as you did with Anna, to Merlyn. Merlyn was an easy switch and loved his raw food but... a couple of years ago, something went wrong. He suddenly stopped eating, everything. He didn't do any of the sick cat things, he still talked to me and followed me around the house but he stopped eating. After refusing all food, including his favourites, like heart and smelts I took him to the vets and had blood work done on him. His blood work came back that he was in renal failure and positive for liver cancer (now that's fatal). My vet said that he didn't appear to be in pain and that I should take him home and love him and bring him in when he started to fail. She told me to feed him whatever he wanted (but he wanted nothing ) So, that evening we watched the sunset and then I sat with him on my lap, I smeared some smoked salmon on his nose (I know, terrible stuff for a cat but...hey, supposedly he was dying...right ) he ate a little bit. So about an hour later, I did it again. He ate a little more, this time a little bit off my finger. So that's how the night went. The next morning we started again. The next day he would eat a little out of the bowl. The next day he wouldn't eat the salmon but he tried some canned cat food. That's how it went for a couple of weeks, me hand feeding him, then he would eat a bit on his own...then he would stop eating. One morning he got up stuck his face in the ferrets' food and has never looked back. Obviously, there was some sort of mistake made in the lab but I got him eating by smearing a little bit of food on his nose and getting him to lick it off. You might just have an idea that might work for you picky puss. I will check in with you tomorrow and I'm hoping that Morphia managed to keep the raw and salmon down. That would be so great ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 15, 2009 20:03:26 GMT -5
Same as usual with the ferrets. Morphia ate some more salmon this morning, and so far I haven't found any evidence of her regurgitating it. Shockingly enough, I caught ANNA eating out of Skit's bowl this evening! Turns out that Skye just gave Skit some salmon, but no raw, and that was what Anna was eating. Maybe we can start from there?
Tried something - Gave Anna and Morphia each some salmon, but mixed the salmon with some of Skit's ground - and they each ate some! Now to see if they keep it down. . .
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