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Post by mowglismom on Jul 18, 2009 21:15:39 GMT -5
1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)? Mowgli (male/2 years) Luna (female/6 months). I got them from a ferret shelter so this is just a estimate of their age. No health problems that I know of.
2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup). Zupreem and ferritone treats. Cat lax once a week
3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to? I would like to keep them on kibble and supplement some whole prey and commercial raw 3 times a week.
4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet? I want them to be healthy and beautiful! 5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets? I was doing lots of research about ferrets and found out about the raw alternative.
6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone? Mowgli weighs 2 lbs 12 oz and Luna weighs 1 lb 8 oz. They appear to be of normal weight and muscle mass.
7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?) Mowgli's teeth are white with little to no tartar but Luna's teeth have tartar build up. I for see problems with her teeth in the future because she is so young and her teeth already have calculus build up. I will post a pick as soon as I can.
8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat. Both pretty soft. Mowgli's coat is much more oily than Luna's. He also has some yellowing on the white spots on his coat. He is a sable and she is a silver.
9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom? 4-6 times a day. Not totally sure on this one. Since I have 2 it is hard to determine who's is who's.
10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell? Yes but it's not unbearable.
11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor? I would say on a scale of 1-10 probably a 3 or 4.
12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level? Probably a 6 for Mowgli and a 7 for Luna.
13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)? I usually feed them in the morning and they come to the food bowl. Sometimes Mowgli does not wake up for food but Luna usually always does. They are free fed.
14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific. No. I have only had them for about 2 1/2 weeks.
15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share? When they were at the rescue they would get baby chicks and kibble. At least I know Mowgli did but Luna was only there for a few days before I adopted her. I am not sure of how often he was fed the baby chicks or if there was anything else he was fed. Luna also was found living outside in a cage after the previous owner moved out and left her. I am not sure how long she was outside for, but it couldn't have been long seeing that the temps were 103 everyday!
16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below: Can't figure out how to post a pic here.
17.
a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch atleast every other day?** Yes
b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch? Yes
c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?*** Yes
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Post by Heather on Jul 18, 2009 23:00:49 GMT -5
Hi and welcome to the mentor program Please feel free to prowl around this site, check out some of the mentoring threads, read and explore what some of your various options are, both in the raw feeding dept and check out some of the methods that people have used to switch their furbabies over. You are also welcome to post any questions you may have here and either myself or one of the other mentors will pop in and answer them for you while I try and find you a mentor set up in the next couple of days (usually a difficult find on the weekends ) Good luck and we will probably be chatting off and on as you progress through your raw feeding adventure ciao
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 18, 2009 23:30:06 GMT -5
Thank you for such a quick reply! I have many questions already. So confused! Do you know of any good sellers online that charge shipping by the lb? My plan is to feed them commercially ground meats 2 evenings a week and whole prey 1 night a week. The rest of the time they will eat kibble. This may change depending on what my mentor says but I am just trying to get an idea of cost per month. I am not quite sure how much my ferts will be eating so I don't want to buy too much and all the sellers I have seen charge for 18 lbs or more on shipping.
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Post by Heather on Jul 20, 2009 0:30:56 GMT -5
I've heard that rodentpro and haretoday are two good online meat producers. I don't know of any others, I don't buy my meat online (I use coops, grocery and butchers all local). Commercial foods have a tendency to be more expensive but they're also usually already balanced and easy to use (one pays for convenience). They also provide an awesome variety of meats which is best for your furkids. Post your question in the raw subsection. Just ask what everyone's favourite commercial online food is. You should get more ideas. Don't feel too confused, it can be confusing but I will offer you a raw meat recipe that you can have a look at and it will give you an idea as to what to look for or what you can do to put something together for your furbabies. It states chicken in this but you can use any protein source you want...pork, beef, quail... 8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat) 1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder) 1 raw chicken heart 1/2 raw chicken liver Water (use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker) Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest. If they absolutely refuse to try the soupy, suck some of it up into the syringe. Use the guide below to get them eating the soup from the syringe: forum.ferret.com/tm.asp?m=27179I'm not a big fan of syringe feeding and don't use it, but I feel that you should be aware of all your options. My biggest fear when feeding through a syringe is aspiration. Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from the syringe, or your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate. Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw. I hope this helps you a little. Good luck ciao
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 20, 2009 19:28:05 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the info. Now I can't wait to get started with my mentor and make a healthier life for my fuzzbuts!
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Post by cristina on Jul 22, 2009 15:24:13 GMT -5
Hello there! My name is Cristina and I will be your mentor through your little ones raw process. *A little about me (or should I say my group )* I have 3 ferrets, a female sable who is just about to turn 2 yrs next month, a male dew who will be 2 yrs in 2 months, and my little shelter girl who is a 2 yr old albino. They have been on a raw/whole prey diet for well over a year now. Whenever your ready to start let me know, if you want to look through some other threads and see which approaches to go about for switching please do so, and if you see a method you like or would like to try then just let me know I can also offer some methods I have had success with as well, so whatever you want I can help you out with! I look forward to working with you and your little ones!
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 22, 2009 19:29:58 GMT -5
Hi Christina! It is good to finally have a mentor! So I have been thinking about doing supplemental feeding. Possibly feeding raw 3-4 times a week in the evenings? Thoughts on this would be great. I was wanting to do some commercial ground, home made, and whole prey. Convenience is necessary seeing that I am in school, work part time, and have 1 child amongst other pets. I would love to hear your ideas and tips on how to start them on raw, supplementing, etc. I am also going to feed them some raw chicken breasts tonight. Their food has been taken up for about 4 hours. How long should I give them to eat it and when can I give their kibble back? Hopefully things go well with the chicken tonight. We will see! Talk to you soon.
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 22, 2009 20:37:34 GMT -5
They ate it! Mowgli ate only 1 little chunk and luna ate 3. I was expecting it to be the other way around!
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Post by cristina on Jul 23, 2009 14:54:27 GMT -5
Thats great that they are already starting to eat chunks! Your way ahead and skipped the "hard part" ! I do have one question for you, you said you are interested in supplementing kibble and raw...may I ask why? I am just trying to get a feel for things and how to come up with a diet to mix them (obviously its a little easier to stick to one or the other, but I do understand when you say you want whats healthy for your little ones). IF you want my opinion (and I can be very opinionated at times so dont take it personally, and feel free to tell me to shut up! haha ), kibble is actually very hard for ferrets to digest, their GI system isnt designed to process carbs and vegetable/fruits, though some of the main ingredients in kibbles include vegetables as well as some starches and carbs. Their digestive systems process very fast, the large intestine and cecum of most animals contain bacteria that digest complex carbohydrates found in vegetables and grains. Ferrets have an especially short large intestine and no cecum, therefore they are obligate carnivores and can only digest meats alone. This also means that when kibble passes through their systems they cannot absorb all the proper nutrients, which in turn makes the pancreas work extra hard to try to break down the carbs and polysaccharides from kibble, which is why many ferrets on kibble diets develop pancreatic cancers and insulomnia very easily. I can go on and on (I tend to ramble ), I was pre-med for 4 years so I tend to ramble about nutrition and body functions...I can go on for hours lol Anyways I just wanted to throw a couple facts out there in case you were interested.....Of course I will help you do whatever diet plan you want! Now onto your initial question: I would space out the kibble and the raw at least 3 hours apart, because there is a slight chance of upset tummy's, since kibble takes longer to break down than raw, so it tends to "sit" in their bodies a touch longer than meat. (personally I have never had an issue with tummy upset with my guys or any of my students, but I just wanted to let you know that there is a slight chance) Let me know your thoughts/feelings/opinions, and we can go on from there to establish a meal plan
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 23, 2009 21:14:17 GMT -5
Ya know that is a good question. I think part of me is concerned about the time it will take to prepare meals for them and cost, while the other part is just not ready for full raw. I hope to at some point start them on a full raw diet. I just have to take baby steps. I am so bad about organs. I do fine at the animal hospital during surgeries but when it comes to feeding them or preparing them I get the hebegebees! I know it makes no sense! As for the diet plan I originally wanted to do one day raw and the next kibble (for now) but my concern was feeding them in the morning since I have to fast them from kibble. How would I go about doing that without having to wake up outrageously early? Also, is Primal Grounds a good ground meat to feed. There is a pet store that can order it for me. I looked into hare today but they charge an arm and a leg for shipping. I am not quite sure how much meat I will need so I didn't want to make such a big purchase yet. It would also be cheaper for me to get Primal at the pet store down the street.
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Post by cristina on Jul 24, 2009 15:19:07 GMT -5
I do know where your coming from exactly, I was the same way in the beginning Just a couple thoughts.....I usually go to the grocery store (or costco) once a month and get all the meat for the month (which doesnt usually cost more than $30-40 and thats at the very most, I look for good deals too) then I go home and cut all the meat up into baggies then freeze them all and just take one out everyday (and I have one baggie of meat per day for 2 feedings) Also with organs I get hearts and livers at the grocery store (just like the ones people buy to eat...not me though! ) I keep them frozen as well in the container and every week I make a soup that I put a frozen chunk of a liver and a few heart with all the other stuff I put in with the soup, blend it then feed it, so I dont even really handle organs much Usually people (including myself) feed twice a day, although with kibble its different since they need to eat alot of it for their bodies to pull out as much nutrients as they can, so I would agree with the everyday switch for each. One day just put out a bowl of kibble, then pick the bowl up in the morning and (whenever you get up) then right before you leave for the day, work, etc... then just put down a bowl of a couple pieces of meat then when you get home later on, give them more fresh meat. Im not too worried about upset tummies right now since its the beginning of your switch and they are really "in love" with meat yet Like I said I have never had an issue with raw and kibble combined, though then again its only used together during a switch then the kibble is eliminated out of the diet completely later on. But I think in the beginning at least you should be fine, if you do wish to continue with feeding both long term we can come up with a plan for feeding long term. I would wait to order orders from hare today....I wait too, I know its a big cost! I have never heard of primal before but I will ask some of the other mentors and get back to you on that one....I usually just go to the grocery store and find good deals (which is actually sometimes cheaper than anything else) I'll get back to you though, Im going to ask around
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 24, 2009 19:35:10 GMT -5
Thanks Christina! I am leaning toward feeding full raw but am still a little unsure. I was concerned about the time and cost issue, but it seems like that may not be as much of a problem as I thought it would be. I also joined a raw feeder co-op in my area so hopefully that will bring the cost and shipping down a bit. As for the organ phobia, well I may just have to deal with it. On to the feeding! So I gave them some more chicken tonight and they dove in but did not eat much. Maybe 3-4 pieces each. At least they were excited about it! Is there anything else that you can recommend feeding them to start out or should I just stick with the chicken for now? I also noticed they both like to take the chicken out of the bowl and eat it in different parts of the cage. Is there anything I can do to keep them from getting chicken all over the cage? For now I have been taking their blankets out of the bottom so it will be easier to clean. I don't want them to not have blankets all the time though. Thanks again for all the help!
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Post by cristina on Jul 25, 2009 12:44:04 GMT -5
Thats really good they are eating pieces already! Usually it takes a few months to build up to that!!! In the beginning you usually stick to bland meats such as chicken and turkey (they arent as rich as the others and are easier to get them to eat at the start), although since your little ones are so far ahead of the program you can see if they'll eat anything now (maybe try some beef pieces, some pork and anything else you can find for cheap at the store) Sometimes I find lamb (like stew pieces) for pretty cheap and I just cut them up smaller as well as duck sometimes. Thats great you found a group like that, I wish I had one around me!! For stashing meat and eating it various places around the cage you can put in cardboard boxes (like popcan boxes or shoe boxes) this gives them a "cave" almost to eat, which is what they like....they also like their privacy from one another during meal time so this tends to help, If you have a 2(+) story cage, then I would dedicate one level to just food and water so they dont get it all over the blankets and such.
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Post by mowglismom on Jul 26, 2009 20:19:40 GMT -5
Yeah I have a ferret nation 141 so there is not that much room. I am gonna try the cardboard box idea and see how that works. Mowgli is more of the stasher! So I am going grocery shopping tomorrow and am planning to get some kind of turkey, chicken, and whatever else I can find. Since I am just starting out do I need to worry about organs and such yet? Just for my knowledge their nutrition should be 4:2:1. 4 meals bone, 2 muscle meat, 1 organ right? I think for now I am going to feed all raw monday, wednesday, and friday. Then start to transition to full raw. Is this ok? I am afraid if I start feeding them raw all day 3 times a week it may be too much for their tummies. The lady that runs the ferret rescue I got them from offered to give me mice and day old baby chicks. She orders in bulk so she has tons! Also their stool seems a bit runny. Is this normal?
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Post by cristina on Jul 28, 2009 19:25:23 GMT -5
yes thats the right ratio of bone/meat/organs.....Organs are usually the last step in switching since they are the richest and they are sometimes hard to get them to like (only some though) Your more than welcome to try some out if you like....I actually get dehydrated liver treats (in the dog isle at the pet store, they are 100% liver from either chicken or beef, I get both) These are sometimes easier to start out on since they are more bland since they are dehydrated (freeze-dried).
Feeding all raw 3 days a week wouldnt be too much for them but they may not take to it completely, which is why we usually start off with ground meats and add them with their normal kibbles then gradually add more meat and less kibble. Its totally up to you though, you can mix with their kibble or feed on seperate days. Their poops will be all different shapes during the switch until they start to eat bone which firms them up....to help with it you can grind up some egg shells and use as a supplement until then (I even still use it in my weekly soups...in addition to bone)
thats great you have someone that gets mice and chicks! I have to spend so much money to get them shipped to me! I actually havent done chicks yet b/c Im a bit of a baby when it comes to small fuzzy animals! haha....but I feed mice all the time, I would start out with a few small mice/pinkies and see if they like them (it may take some time, they are pretty rich)
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