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Post by Heather on Jun 23, 2009 0:15:55 GMT -5
You're switching your little ones exactly how I switch my little furbabies . They're probably getting so much soupy that they won't touch the kibbles unless they're really hungry. If all your furbabies are eating the soupy either by being fed by you and on their own, I would lift the kibbles and only feed it at night when they've gone to bed. If you go like this you will have them switched and off kibbles in a couple of weeks. Once they start eating it on their own out of the bowl, you start thickening up the soupy until all they're eating is the ground meats. You then start adding chunked meats...slivers (like the end of your finger tip) to the soupy, adding larger and larger pieces as they get more and more comfortable eating chunked meats. At this point I quite often add the meaty end of a chicken wing to let them tear it apart, whole chicken legs (I slash the meat to the bone but leave it attached to the bone so that they have to tear the meat off the bone itself)..this you can worry about when you actually get there but that's one of the methods to get your furbabies going on whole meats. You and your furbabies are doing fantastic a wonderful job. ciao
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Post by sherrylynne on Jun 23, 2009 8:50:23 GMT -5
Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 4yrs, to 15(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 3, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and having her surgery in August. After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old. After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Lastly, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of. While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him. The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet. With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. That's me and mine in a nutshell The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma. So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed! And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay! It sounds like your's are off to a very good start, so we'll keep on with that. It's how I switched mine as well. Doing it this way, you'll also find that hand feeding will help you bond even closer with them. I'm looking forward to helping you get all 7 on a wonderful diet
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 23, 2009 12:05:10 GMT -5
Hi Sherrylynne! Thank you in advance for helping through this. Heather has been awesome getting me started. (Thank you Heather!!! ) I’m Beth. I’m 28 and work for an IT Outsourcing organization and get to work from home. Amber is definitely my most difficult furbie in the group. She is so darn stubborn it’s unreal! She’s also the alpha in the group… Most times it’s difficult for me to get soup on her lips. She twists her head every which way. Like a kid refusing to eat peas or something… I’ve been taking a small syringe of soup and forcing her to eat a little at a time today. (She decided this morning that ferretone was no longer worth it for her) She doesn’t spit it out, so, Im thinking this is a good sign. She’s never been big on soup though. Even soup that was just made out of kibble and water didn’t appeal to her. I’m just going to keep working at it though… When I asked my vet about raw feeding, she wasn’t overly excited over it. She didn’t say “don’t do it”, but, she definitely was NOT and advocate. I must admit, that’s been part of the reason I’ve delayed as long as I have. Just not sure it was right… Oviously the decision has been made... :Dlol How much soup should they be eating in a given day so I know they’re getting enough? With me still spoon feeding most of them and taking the kibble away during the day today, I just want to be sure they’re getting enough…
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 23, 2009 12:40:35 GMT -5
Eggshell Powder....
Ok, so, I just dont eat that many eggs.... And it REALL feels like a waste to crack an egg just for the shell...
Is there anywhere online that I can BUY eggshell powder?
I googled it, and found several sites with instructions, and a BUNCH that sell the powder for other purposes, but, Im not confident that it's of food quality...
EDIT** In my attempts to find this, I went to the Natural pet food store near me and they had steamed, powdered bone marrow. So, I picked some up. Has anyone used this before?
Also, I had zero luck finding chicken hearts today but, I found beef hearts, so, I put a 1/2 inch square of that in to the soup I made tonight... (fingers crossed all this is ok... )
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Post by sherrylynne on Jun 23, 2009 19:30:02 GMT -5
I do know what you mean by stubborn . Boris did the twisting, gagging, the whole nine yards. Such drama queens they can be! Just keep doing what you're doing with Amber. Sooner or later, it WILL take with her. What I used to do with Boris was the scruff, and on the nose, because he also refused to yawn after the first time of having some soupies dabbed on his tongue When he finally refused to lick it off his nose(and yes, they can do this!), I put it on his gums. And if you're vet's anything like mine, the main concern is balance. I actually sat and talked with my vet, told her exactly how and what I was feeding, and she was fine with it. A number of people seem to think that if you get your ferret eating raw meat chunks, that's good enough. It isn't. They really do need to eat the bone and organ as well for proper nutrition. And that's what we'll get your guys to! If you don't have enough eggshell(although you'd be surprised how little is actually needed), definitely use the bone powder. Do you have a butcher anywhere near you? If you do, they just might give you the bone powder from under the saw. That is ideal for switching, as not only is it raw, but easily mixed into soup. It also provides all the nutrients they need from the diet. As to how much soupies? Mine eat about an icecube and a half each(just an average) per soup meal. If all they are eating is soupies right now, that would be twice a day. So- 2 or 3 cubes per day. And if I were you, I'd get a kitchen scale now if you don't already have one. Once mine were on chunks, I was worried they weren't eating anywhere near enough. Turns out I was giving them at LEAST twice what they could actually eat in a day I wouldn't worry too much about how much right now. If they don't get enough soupies at the moment, they'll fill up on kibble at night The only real difference in how Heather and I switched our ferrets is that she took her kibble out during the day, and I took mine out at night. That way, they were hungry in the morning before I left for work, and were more...willing?...to at least try it And the beef heart is fine. Actually, any dark muscle meat is good. The more a muscle gets worked, the more taurine is in it. The heart is ideal because it works continually. Thigh meat is good as well. Since we don't know exactly how much taurine ferrets need, it's better to ere on the side of caution, because the problems that can result from taurine deficiency simply aren't worth chancing it! Oh- almost forgot. If you can get a new coffee grinder, it's perfect for eggshell! Only takes a few seconds to grind up what you need. I still use a pinch on all muscle meats because one of mine seems to need more calcium than the others, and it certainly isn't hurting them any! I ground up about a dozen eggshells about 4 or 5 months ago, and I'm still using it for their muscle meals.
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 23, 2009 19:59:28 GMT -5
I only have 1 "true" butcher place that I could find near me. I called thee today in search of chicken hearts and they didnt seem overly excited to help me. In fact, they we near rude when I eplained what it was for... As far as Amber, she keeps going back and forth. I got her to take more soup of the spoon this evening (covered in ferretone, but, hey, it worked). She ate almost 2 tbsps without having it "forced on her". I'll take it!!! I think the major concern I have right now is their lack of energy. They eat in the morning when I let them out, and then they sleep the rest of the day. I have to wake them up in the afternoon to give them more soup... It seems like they're just wiped out all day where before, they would play for a couple hours. Even when I round them up to put them in their cage for the night, they just go right back to bed... How long is this lack of energy supposed to last?
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Post by sherrylynne on Jun 24, 2009 8:33:05 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, how warm is it right now? I find that come summer, mine slow down quite a bit, except early morning, and late evening. Otherwise, they sleep. A lot. Also, since they've just started transitioning to a brand new diet, one which for the most part, they aren't overly fond of, that's obviously added in. You'll find that as they become more accustomed to what they are eating, their energy levels will increase a lot. Mine now play for an average of two to three hours at a stretch. They want to play more in the morning, probably because it's cooler. Their evening playtime, of course, follows the heat of the day, so their energy level is correspondingly lower. I actually had to go to several stores before I found a meat manager(no real butchers in these!) who was willing to order what I needed by the case lot. I suppose if I actually get off my duff, and start calling around, I'll find a good, proper, butcher What I've found is that if I just tell them I need it because I make my own pet food, they don't seem to have as much of a problem with the whole idea. If they sound interested, then I tell them it's raw for the ferrets Not sure what Hare Today has on their site for bone meal, or chicken hearts, but you might want to check it out. Here's their site; www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21For the interim, you can work with chicken thighs, and a bit of beef heart, although it is quite rich, so I'd just start with about an ounce for soup for the 7 of them. And you are doing great with Amber. The main idea is to get her tasting it, and trying it. Which she's doing. It took 6 weeks for Boris to start to accept this new diet, less for the others, so she's actually doing quite well!
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 24, 2009 12:03:14 GMT -5
It's only been in the 60s and low 70s here for the last several weeks. All it's done is rain most of the month... I'm in CT.... A couple of them seem to be a little better this morning. It happens to be the ones adjusting to the soup more quickly.
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 26, 2009 14:16:38 GMT -5
Hi Sherry,
I getting ready to go camping for the weekend. The ferts all come with me, but, I wont have access to a computer. Things seem to be going well with the switch. I'm going to bring planty of the chicken soup with me to the caqmper so I can continue the swtich there. I'll update you as soon as I get home. I may not be till Sunday night or Monday.
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Post by sherrylynne on Jun 27, 2009 12:05:01 GMT -5
Have fun, and let me know how they do! Sounds like a blast, taking 7 ferrets camping
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jun 30, 2009 8:28:26 GMT -5
It's actually a lot of fun, we go most weekends during the summer and have a big 5th wheel camper where the ferts have their own Ferret Nation 142 in te camper and an 5x8' outdoor play run with their own pool, sandbox, and more toys than they know what to do with! So, I got stubborn this weekend. I nticed that they were getting spoiled and while they would happily eat the soup off my finger or a spoon, they wouldnt go near it on a bowl or plate. It actually got to the point where they would sniff the plate, obviously hungry, and then come over to me and look up at me like "Ok Mom, Im ready to be fed..." So, I put my foot down on that one and gave them a little extra time in thie cage with just the chicken and, they ate it! The only issue wit this is im not able to closely watch WHO's eating how much.... Any suggestions there? I'm still putting the kibble in at night. Should I stop that here soon?
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Post by sherrylynne on Jun 30, 2009 18:51:08 GMT -5
Most excellent! Let me get this straight- you are saying they actually ate chicken, as compared to soup? As to taking out the kibbles at night. You have to have a better idea of who's eating what first, unfortunately. Is there any way you can keep an eye to see if they all take at least some of it? The good news is that if they fill up on meat, they won't eat as much, if any, of the kibbles. Try to keep an eye out on how much kibble is eaten at night as well. Maybe use a measuring cup when you put it in, and measure it again when you take it out for the day?
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Post by pleasureis1 on Jul 2, 2009 10:45:35 GMT -5
Well, it's not really soup and not really chicken. It's chcken thats been lightly thrown in a food processor... So, there's some chuncks and some not chuncks. Problem is that they will eat twice as much when I hand feed them than when I just give them a bowl... I'm still putting the kibble in at night, and they're still eating nearly a cups worth of kibble over night between the 7 of them... I suppose that isnt too much, but, Im just tryng to be patient and get them to eat more on ther own. (spoiled little furballs like mom hand feedig them a little too much ) Im leaving here shortly to meet up with Julie from GFX and pick up my new kit. www.gfxferret.com/09kits/pinch/hob2.html Thats my new baby!!! I wont be back online for a couple das since I live in CT and am drivng to pick him up. I will try to log on from the hotel if I have a chance.
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Post by sherrylynne on Jul 3, 2009 8:57:07 GMT -5
Yeah, they can be lazy little brats . Mine will eat more with hand feeding, too. Just keep on with what you're doing for now, and gradually make the pieces larger. If they are then eating that reliably, you can look at removing the kibble overnight. You can also try putting the soup/meat dish in the cage with them for the day, see what they do with it.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Jul 4, 2009 11:13:19 GMT -5
You are going to have to change your title to 8 and counting... counting quickly I might add
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