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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 16, 2009 10:53:41 GMT -5
Here's an initial post I made on Ferret Harmony: There's this little ferret(isn't there always ), in the same pet store I frequent. She's been there for about 3 weeks, the last week by herself. Sweet kit. Identical to Lucrezia, right down to the black ring on her tail . I'd swear they were from the same set of parents. Identical that is, in every way except personality. She is so scared/timid all the time. I've handled her several times, and I've never seen a ferret cling like that, and shiver/tremble. And not a wake up sort of tremble. When you pick up this little girl, all four legs immediately wrap around your hand and arm, and she will not willingly let go. Not even to explore. She IS curious, but too scared to let go of you to check anything out. I'll hold her, petting and talking for about 30 minutes, before she calms down enough to stop shaking. Every time someone else touches her though, her entire little body goes stiff as a board, and she starts shaking again. And every time I have to put her back, she literally has to be peeled off my arm. Do you have any idea how many times I've almost pulled my debit card out, and just brought her home, still clinging to my arm? I know with dogs, you'll get what's called an "Omega" dog sometimes. They are the ones who are very timid by nature, but they are also pack animals, and the omega's serve the purpose of being the alarm dog for the pack. Does anyone know if ferrets have an "omega" as well? I do know the staff treat the ferret kits there pretty good, and whenever I talk to any of them about nip training and diet, pretty soon there are at least three of them gathered around asking questions about the ferrets(they get no training ), because they really do care. And here is the post I made yesterday , ya, I know, I know. No one needs to tell me, Turns out she was a transfer from another store. She's 5 months old, she's also deaf as a post(explains the fear), and is just like Lucrezia for personality She is also a major fear biter, revenge biter, and has a wee bit of a temper She should fit right in Without further ado, WILLOW: I've also found her trigger for biting already. For however long a 5 month old is in a pet store, the only times she would have been touched would be to be taken out of the cage, handled, and put BACK INTO the cage. I found a quick scoop up, then right back down, has done a lot to allay her fear of being right back into the cage all the time. She will actually let me pick her up(although it has to be a quick scoop, or she will bite my hands/fingers), without twisting to bite. And I do mean BITE. Draws blood every time. She also cannot tolerate being scruffed. Freaks out every time. So, for those of you who have ferrets who can't be scruffed, how do you tell the fuzz(who's also deaf), biting is not appropriate?
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Post by spiritualtramp on Mar 16, 2009 11:06:23 GMT -5
Willow!!!
Have you tried time outs or is that counterintuitive because she's biting out of wanting to be out of the cage? I've heard some people using spray bottles with water (like for a cat) to some degree of success. I don't know if I'd try it because I think most ferrets (at least my little otters) would all get a kick out of it instead.
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Post by bigsis7 on Mar 16, 2009 11:09:07 GMT -5
LOL!! Yay! I love that name! About being scruffed, my guess is she's probably still nervous so maybe you can try putting her into a bite hold and rock her back and forth (wrist motion). This will calm her down.
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 16, 2009 11:41:00 GMT -5
Bite hold doesn't work, and we do use time outs, but the only way to get her to let go once she's got hold(she bites the fingers to the bone every time she does it), is to literally pin her(which terrifies her), and pry her jaws off. Putting her under the tap doesn't work. I tried it, and all she does is to try to bite harder, shaking and trembling all the while. I pry her off, and the only way I can put her in time out is with a scruff. I know she'll come around with time. She's already shown signs of it, but I do need more ideas.
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Post by bigsis7 on Mar 16, 2009 11:52:22 GMT -5
Hmmm....The swinging usually calms my ferrets, but I'm not sure if it would work with this girl. It sounds like she's had a rough first 5 months, so she's trying to see if she can trust you. I was going to suggest just sitting and try to tempt her with a treat, but it sounds like when she bites, it hurts! So I'm not sure if you could sit still long enough to do that. I probably couldn't. Maybe for now you can try wearing gloves (even just socks over your hands) to protect yourself for a while and just try petting her and showing her hands are nice. Giving her treats and using a toy to play will help also. Anyways sorry I couldn't be of more help!
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Post by Heather on Mar 16, 2009 13:46:12 GMT -5
Willow, I love it. I wanted to call one of my furkids Willow, I just haven't hit the right one yet. A deaf fear biter....hmmm Mr Fun-go Squiggly. I love the little brat dearly but he's a terror. He's a fear biter, you cannot scruff him, if he's scruffed he attacks. He has no bite inhibition at all. He's terrified of hands, when he bites you he goes for blood every time. If you startle him, he doesn't run away, he attacks you. Sound familiar . He's been through 4 homes that I know of he's not 2 yrs old. Here's what we did. We worked time outs. No longer than 3 min. We picked him up constantly. If we see him or he runs by, he's picked up and he gets a quick snuggle and put down again. If he attacked when we put him down, he either got picked up again or slid on the floor (he would also attack your feet and ankles...again his intent was to injure) You basically slide him away from you. Every time he attacks, you slide him away. He's not hurt, he rather enjoys it but he's not going to where he wants to go so he tires of it very quickly. It also works as a diversion, he forgets why he was attacking you in the first place. He walked around with a continuous poofy tail, he was clingy and stressed to the max. I used full body massage. At first he tried to bite me all the time. These furkids are a perpetual work in progress but you can win...it's been weeks since Squiggly has bitten anyone. You now can hold him, I've snuggled him and even rubbed his ears and face. I still do full body massage whenever he's really wound up and can't seem to settle. He's really poor at reading other ferrets' body language too so he can't play with everyone. He's learning but it's a slow, process that requires huge amounts of patience. He's a very sweet boy, but he's definitely not everyones idea of a good ferret. You're an angel for taking in this furchild. She was on a highway to either a short lifetime of abuse or death. You saved her. Good luck, I've found that these bad kids make some of the most awesome, lovies. ciao
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Post by bluedove on Mar 16, 2009 15:39:37 GMT -5
I don't have any helpful advice, unfortunately. I think she's just going to have to begin to feel safe before you'll be able to make progress with her biting. I just wanted to offer congrats and kudos. If only all babies could find a wonderful "sucker" like you!
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 16, 2009 17:53:08 GMT -5
Heather, I've only had Willow for 2 days, but you have described her to a tee! I knew someone on here would have ideas . I just bought a very heavy pair of workgloves to use while my hands heal, til the next go-round. I'll definitely try that sliding thing. I think what makes the bites so bad is that while she's biting, she's also trying to get away, but doesn't realize to let go, so she's scrambling backwards as fast as she can with her teeth in you. When I first get her out of the cage, she'll let me stroke, pet, cuddle and hand feed, for a good 5 minutes., so there is hope. I know that, and I won't give up on this little girl!!! She also has no idea how to be a ferret. Not a clue how to play with toys, about towel rides, nothing. It just makes me so angry!
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Post by Heather on Mar 16, 2009 23:13:55 GMT -5
I"m glad that I could help a little. I will offer a word of warning. I know that handling her with gloves might seem like a good idea but they more often slow the process. Perhaps once your hands heal a little more you can stop handling her with gloves. I do know where you're coming there wasn't a person in the household that didn't suffer from Fun-go attacks. He was actually afraid of the gloves and it actually seemed to make the attacks harder. Fun-go had no idea on how to be a ferret either. Unfortunately, the more you play with him and the more he gets excited the harder he bites . He has learned to ride on towels but you have to be very careful because he gets so excited that he attacks your feet and hands. I also found that picking him up while he was sleeping and snuggling him to waking appeared to speed up the socializing process. When I worked this process, I only snuggled him until he wanted down, then I put him down. I wanted him to understand that I wasn't going to make him do anything that he wasn't comfortable doing. I wanted him to be comfortable with us handling him. He will never be a social butterfly like some of my other guys but he's now starting to come looking for snuggles. He will stand up and put his paws on your leg asking to be picked up. He won't stay long but he wants to be held now. Squiggly came into our house last August. Good luck ciao
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Post by Forum Administrator on Mar 17, 2009 0:28:59 GMT -5
Congrats! I'm happy for you! I used to have a furkid named willow....see my siggy. She had to be rehomed, along with lugnut, hendrix, and weezie-----long story).
Is she eating raw yet? Chomping and ripping through raw might help with the biting.
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 17, 2009 8:33:33 GMT -5
Actually, she prefers the raw. I actually bought a small bag of the crap kibble, with the idea that a hungry ferret would be harder to bite train, but all she's eaten is the raw meat. I'm going to get her wings today, for the bone. And I'm thinking, great- give a ferret who already bites to the bones something to make her jaws stronger . Heather- something really odd. She prefers to be handled with the gloves. Doesn't offer to bite them at all. What I'm doing is picking her up with them on, then taking one off, and stroking and skritching her back and head. She'll also let me give her kisses on the back of her head. And yes, I control her head while doing this . One other problem I've noticed. She is really defensive with the others. I'll only allow 15 minutes of interaction(her fecal was done, and she shows no signs of mites), but the screaming is so bad, and she hides in the tubes, snapping at whoever comes by. I do know when she was in the pet store, there was a huge, very dominant cinnamon in the same cage as the others. I'm wondering if maybe he was "picking" on the little ones? He was at least 3 pounds, and when you handled him, he would nip/bite if you tried to turn him on his back, and flatly refused to "give" when scruffed.
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lorelei0922
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Happily Feeding Natural!
Posts: 245
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Post by lorelei0922 on Mar 17, 2009 13:41:19 GMT -5
sounds like you have a pretty bad fear biter there!!
here's a few things we do with fear biters that we get in to socialize before going on to a forever home..
the first week or so we dont take them out of the cage for play time... just open the door and make sure they can make their way at their time ... and pointedly ignore them while playing with other ferrets ... giving them lots of fuss etc... unless the scaredy ferret comes to US.. then we quickly scoop them up keeping some tone or other majorly high value treat in our hand to offer even while setting them back on the ground... teaching them slowly that you got the treats... your hands are nice ... and they are missing out if they dont want to be near you... deaf or not... she'll watch the other ferrets interact with you ...
treats are ONLY given while being held...
after giving them a week or so of settling in time i start hand feeding... doing the quick scoop and slowly feeding every bite they will take at first perhaps just a bite sitting on my lap.. then in the palm of my hand... then in my fingers... teaching her that I have the food... my hands are nice... and she can trust me... i do this for ever meal for about 3 days.... if they wanna eat they get PLENTY!!! as much as i can offer!!! but they get it from my hands only..
always stroke gently ... if you can talk hum in a low monotone... holding them against your chest so they can feel the vibration ( seeing as she's deaf)
you know she doesn't like being scruffed... so leave off on that for now... and ditch the gloves if you can possibly stand it .. it will only hinder your progress... watch her for a while... learn to undesrstand at which point she bites and avoid those gestures while teaching and encouraging her with positive reinforcements.. treats and strokes etc..
i did have a ferret in that was scared like you're describing... completely terrified to screeching and pooing around others... we started by choosing a single cage mate that we could completely trust... one that doesn't bully but has a bit of a tough skin and can handle it if the newbie attacks out of fear... doused them both in ferretone to get the newbie licking and grooming and sorta made them live together.. we had about 4-5 days of screaming... another 2-3 of poos.. but our lil ivy... ( now one of my best socialized and chosen to be a mum this year) eventually learned that this other ferret wasn't trying to kill her everytime she came near... they had only 1 bed... a pillowcase hammy... she could sleep inside it or on top... at first she would sleep where ever the other ferret wasn't... then slowly she was curling up in her own lil ball but on the same side of the hammy... when this happened i slowly snuck into the cage and shifted the steady ferret's position a lil to be curled AROUND Ivy... they'd continue on sleeping until ivy woke up and moved away.. but then the magic day came... Ivy woke up.. and Saffie ( the steady cage mate) was still sleeping... and Ivy actively reached over and groomed her head a lil... click.... with in a week she was ready to go back out to the shed with the other 7 ferrets...
it CAN work... patience... persistance... never give up!!
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 17, 2009 19:03:42 GMT -5
I have been doing the quick scoop method, successfully, and the hand feeding when she first comes out of the cage and is still sleepy, and somewhat calmer. We are still working on the ferretone bit. I tried some ferretone on the palm of my hand, and had her hanging off it . As for the gloves, it's only to give my hands a bit of time to heal. I counted the bites today, and there are 9, from two days, and most of them to the bone. I knew they were, because I could feel the teeth grating on it. I like the other ferret with her idea, and I know the perfect one, but he is really strongly bonded with Sinnead. I'm wondering how it would go separating Boris and Sinnead for the amount of time it would take(they are always cuddled in the same bed whenever they are in the cage.) I know one of her triggers is she is not wanting to go back to her cage(she'd have spent the first five months of her life in a very small one). That's starting to abate, now that she's beginning to realize she will come out again. How would I get around Lucrezia trying to dominate her? I'm thinking because of the big cinnamon bully she couldn't get away from, she's scared spitless over this. Having two separate play areas isn't possible, since this is already happening with the foster ferrets(Lucrezia and Athena hate each other ) If I just leave the cage door open, the others will def. all be in there with her, which will traumatize her no end. Sorry if it sounds like I'm naysaying things, I'm just trying to work ideas given for the situation(both physical layout of the house, and ferret personalities). A bit of good news, however! She actually tried to initiate play with me today. A game of chase that lasted all of two minutes, but it's a start!
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lorelei0922
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Happily Feeding Natural!
Posts: 245
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Post by lorelei0922 on Mar 19, 2009 2:57:18 GMT -5
that is a start and it says that it isn't hopeless...
if you do try putting her with another ferret ...be sure that its one that isnt the dominant type.. but more the comforting type ... simply because of her fears... what about setting up a playpen within the play area for her to retreat to if she's had too much of the others? or not having seperate play areas but seperate play times.. allowing her and her cage mate out for a play at a different time.. after the others have been put away?
dont worry you're not naysaying ideas lol.. you're trying to find out what works for YOU which is all any of us can do...
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 19, 2009 9:10:33 GMT -5
Actually, I was really impressed with her today. I was able to pick her up a few times without the gloves! What I've been doing is when I have them on, and she bites, I'm still scruffing lightly, but fully support her weight with the other hand, and giving her 1 minute time outs. It does seem to be working. Since all her weight is in my hand under her, she's not as threatened by the scruff, and one minute seems to help. For out of cage time, I feed all the others in cage, and bring her to the kitchen with me(she's still partially asleep, so quite easily handled). I use a kennel for a feeding den, and she quite enjoys it . Then she's out for about 45 minutes by herself. I let her initiate play- chase is her favourite , although she likes a billowing towel as well. All games have to be very gentle. She is also coming to like ferret bowling! All in all, she "seems" to be coming around far more quickly than I expected. We've learned that a puffed tail means she's getting too excited, so we leave her alone at this time.
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