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Post by Heather on Dec 4, 2010 20:52:30 GMT -5
Name: Jackie HF Forum Username: jncf
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
Right here on Holistic Ferret!
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I'm interested in commercial raw, with RMB and chunks of meat.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Because my girls already eat the freeze dried raw, I've seen the amazing transformation. They are healthy, active, and so happy. They were never like that on kibble.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Yes I am
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?
Pixie - 1 year, 10 months old. Female. Recent intestinal blockage. Underweight. Teeth grinding and pawing at mouth.
Trixie - 1 year, 1 month old. Female. Perfectly healthy (but a cloth muncher)
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
Stella & Chewy's freeze dried chicken, duck duck goose, and lamb. Raw chicken soupy (some pumpkin, chicken liver, whole egg)
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
They are partially switched right now, but with Pixie's current health problems, I'd like to have a mentor to talk to about her diet. Pixie is more reluctant to try new foods unless it is in a soup form. Trixie is starting to eat very small chunks
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I'm 18, a pre-med college student majoring in Chem/Bio. Next year will be my last undergrad year, and I'll be writing my thesis, so I really want them fully switched by then. School keeps me really busy, but my ferrets are my children, so they get priority. I've had Pixie and Trixie since they were 8 weeks old. Pixie was an only child for a while, so she is really attached to me, more so than Trixie. Trixie is kind of skiddish, but she is getting more friendly.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Constantly :-)
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). [/i]
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Dec 4, 2010 21:09:28 GMT -5
Hi! Here's just a little about me... Name: Katt HF Screen Name: HurricaneKatt Location: Anchorage, Alaska About Me: My favorite hobby is... studying. Just kidding. I like to do different types of art including drawing and painting. I recently started making dream catchers too. I enjoy horseback riding, playing with my critters, and enjoying time with my boyfriend. And the critters of course! I am a premed student in Alaska graduating this May 2011 with a Biology degree. I’ll be taking a year off to enjoy myself, work on my application, and visit Africa before applying for Medical School in the next round. I became a mentor because...I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My FerretS: Koda – male, Real Canadian, not quite a year old (was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009), Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first, and so far only, ferret and though I have not had him long he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several rubber objects (had to have surgery!), and is constantly finding new trouble to get into. Loves digging the carpet up, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is anal around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… We recently discovered that he has IBD and I am actually working with Mustelidmusk on adjusting his diet to keep his belly aches under control. Sometime this winter I plan on getting a second ferret, I am just waiting until the right one comes along, and fidgeting with Koda's diet in the meanwhile. Kneai: I JUST brought Kenai home about a week ago. He is already eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, franken prey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is already almsot as big as Koda! He is a...mutt I guess. He's like half silver, half chocolate...or something. haha He loves, LOVES toys but hasn't figured out the whole stashing thing yet. Instead, he just runs around the room in random circles carrying his toys around. He is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Right now he gets mainly lamb, rabbit, and rodent because of his IBD, but we are working on adding different meats back into his diet one at a time. I still consider myself fairly new to raw diets compared to a lot of the other people on this forum who have been doing this for years. However, I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. Koda is healthy, energetic, has super soft fur, and smells so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed him with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! Kenai just started on raw and is much pickier than Koda. I am starting to see some of the benefits of the good diet in him too, but he still has some kibble-stink to filter through his system (his poopies still stink a bit lol). When he first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poop smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and is improving each day. His coat is already much softer and less scruffy, and he is growing and putting on meat like a champ! Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help a ton there on picking a good kibble… but hopefully we can get rid of it entirely anyways. My Specialty: Trouble makers! Especially only ferrets, and kits. I am excited to work with someone with 2 ferrets! Also, I have been through the whole blockage issue (unfortunately) with Koda. What a nightmare! So I can totally sympathize with that whole issue! It sounds like we have a lot in common, I am really excited to work with you and your girls
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Post by katt on Dec 4, 2010 21:13:53 GMT -5
Ok, so to start, why don't you give me a detailed run down of what your ferrets are eating now. Like what your feeding schedule is (2 meals, 3, free-fed, etc), roughly how much they eat, yadda yadda. Then we can get started! Since they are already on freeze dried raw, this should go much more smoothly (*knock on wood*) than switching from kibble!
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Post by Jackie on Dec 5, 2010 3:03:16 GMT -5
Hi Katt! So as far as feeding, they get 2 meals a day. They eat between 2-3 oz a piece a meal. I feed a soup of freeze dried (usually lamb and duck duck goose), chicken breast, liver, some egg shell, taurine powder, pumpkin, olive oil. I used to leave some rehydrated freeze dried during the day, but both have started refusing to eat it wet. They will now only eat the freeze dried dry, which I don't really like doing. I tried some chicken chunks yesterday, and Pixie will take them out of the dish, bring them to the corner of the cage, and lick the soup of and leave them there . I think she knows they are food, but doesn't exactly know what to do with them. I've also found that when the soup is chunky, they eat less (maybe they are too lazy to chew it?). That worries me because if it is too chunky Pixie refuses to eat. I'm thawing out some chicken legs now, so tomorrow I'm going to chop it into some small chunks and then see what they do with it. My eventual goal would be to get them to eat a freeze dried meal in the morning and a meal of meat chunks, bone, organ, etc at night (or vice versa.) Update on Pixie's health. Both of their stools have been wonderful. They are normal color and size. They pass stool about 3-5 times a day each, so that seems like a normal amount. Pixie has been gaining weight, but she is still underweight. Trixie is packing on the winter weight (it just started getting cold here in FL). Pixie really hates it when I try to put food in her mouth. I think it reminds her of when I was giving her meds (which she HATED with a passion). She'll start gagging and act like I'm feeding her poison. Trixie isn't so reluctant, but is continuously spitting the chunks out. She did eat some chicken skin once, so maybe she won't be so difficult. Sorry this is so long! P.S. Glad we have a lot in common =) It will make this more fun!
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Post by katt on Dec 5, 2010 5:39:34 GMT -5
I assume that the chicken breast is raw? Or is it cooked? If it is cooked, then I would start substituting a portion of the cooked meat for raw. But, assuming it is raw, then I would increase the amount of chicken that you add, and decrease the freeze dried. Try that, if they won't eat it, then up the freeze dried a teeny bit until they will. Then we can slowly wean them into eating pureed raw that way so they get used to the taste. Even freeze dried has a lot of extras in it (for fiber) if you look at the ingredients. While it may not be a huge percent, it still affects the flavor. So, if we can wean them into the flavor of raw meat on it's own (I just use raw meat, water, and a blender lol) then I think that will help some to get up to chunks. Then we can slowly thicken the raw-only soup and start adding chunks, then removing soupies...etc. Since Pixie is so picky we can keep this to just one meal a day. Then even if she will not eat a whole lot in the beginning, she will still have the other meal. (and then you are keeping with your 2 different meals plan ). Let me know how they do with the chunks tomorrow - if they eat it then things will be a whole lot easier! If not, no worries we will go the sure and steady way. Also, at any point we may reach a temporary plateau where they may refuse the next step up (ie thicker soup or bigger chunks). The key is to go back to the previous step and get their stress more level, then try again in a smaller step. We just keep moving slow and steady - no faster or slower than the girls will let us - and they will get there. Next time she does that, leave the chunks in there. It takes a long time for raw meat to really go bad so it will be fine for them. I find that stashed chunks left in the cage pique curiosity and are more likely to be eaten later. Other times, they are just being categorized as "interesting object," stashed, and never eaten. If they aren't eaten by the next day then toss them. But I would be curious to see if she (or one of them anyways) will eat them if they are left in there. Could be the texture, the taste of the chunks, or it could just be that the chunks are "too big." Usually what works best is to first thicken the soup (gradually) until it is basically puree, then add teeny tiny chunks that are barely noticeable, then slightly bigger, then even bigger, until eventually you are up to chunks with the soup as gravy. Then you take away the soup, start increasing the chunk size more an adding bone... As a side note on the bone, there will probably be a period or two where they are not really getting bone or egg in the soupies. This will not be permanent, so it should not hurt them at all. And they will still be getting the calcium and ground bones from the freeze dried raw meals too. Their poop might be a little funky as we make the switch, but that too will even out as we go on - especially once we move up to whole bones. I am glad to hear she is doing better! I know exactly what it is like to deal with all that fun (not!) blockage stuff! Koda had to have surgery, and since then we have discovered he has IBD. That is something we can work on too if you would like. Is there something that she really likes as a treat, like FerretVite or soupies on you finger, or fish oil, or anything like that? As I am sure you have noticed, I am the Queen of long posts! I agree! So you are graduating College at 18? I am jealous! I moved all over (Army Brat) growing up and went to many crappy schools, had my records lost, yadda yadda. Basically I ended up being much farther behind what I could have been. I could have graduated high school early, AND had almost 2 years of AP classes under my belt for credits. But Nope! The school systems (esp in NY! That school was the worst in the world!) had to *screw me over. Oh well, everything happens for a reason, eh? I would never have met my fantastic bf had that happened, which would mean that I would never have moved into a place that led to me getting an iguana that ultimately (long story lol) led to me finding this forum and getting the ferrets! Please ask if you have ANY questions, or if I am not clear on something or just whatever.
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Post by Jackie on Dec 5, 2010 15:42:28 GMT -5
Okay so here is how breakfast went this morning. I started off which just some partially frozen chicken leg chunks. I chopped them up really small and poured some olive oil on them. I'll start with Trixie. Trixie: So I held her scruffed with her mouth slightly tilted up and her butt sitting in the cage. I put some chicken chunks in her mouth and she chewed it up and then would let it fall out of the corner of her mouth. I continued putting the piece back in until she ate it. She ate about 7 very small chicken chunks, and 1 piece of chicken skin (she ate this much more easily than the chunks). Pixie: I scruffed her the same way. She did exactly what Trixie did, except she seemed to be grinding her teeth after I put the piece in her mouth . She ate about 4-5 small chicken chunks. Then I made a plain soup with just the chicken leg, egg shell, taurine, water and olive oil. Pixie still wanted nothing to do with it. She refused to eat it off the plate, so I tried spoon feeding her. She didn't want that either. So I put a bunch on my fingers, and she did agree to lick it off. She maybe got 1 oz? Trixie was okay with licking it off the plate, but she only ate about 1 oz, too. I also broke the chicken leg in half to expose the marrow and tried to get Trixie to chew on it. She bit it once and wanted nothing more to do with it. So I left the broken leg, some soup and small chunks in the cage. Hopefully their tummies will get the best of them
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Post by Jackie on Dec 5, 2010 15:59:31 GMT -5
To respond to your questions. Yep, the chicken is raw. I didn't even bother going to cooked chicken first. . I did make a raw chicken only soup today and it didn't go terrible, so I guess that's progress. Now that it's colder, I'm definitely going to leave the chunks in. Before it was really hot in their room and the food would spoil and start to stink. Yuck! Pixie and Trixie love!!! olive oil. I might try some fish oil today to see if they like it more. I graduate when I'm 19 (I'm a junior now). I skipped 10th grade and started in this program called the School for Advanced Studies. I was able to take college classes in the morning and my HS stuff in the afternoon. I almost got my associates degree while in HS, but I had to drop out of my senior year and drop all of my college classes because my rents kicked me out when I was 16 So I moved in with my bf, finished HS online. When I went to transfer all my credits to my undergrad, I only got 1 years worth of credits, even though I had about 45 on my record not counting AP stuff. I also lost my full scholarship because I didn't graduate from a FL school (the online school was based in Utah) But like you said, everything happens for a reason. It really help me mature and learn to be on my own and independent. If I was living at home, I would NEVER have gotten ferrets (rents thought they were bad pets . Living with my bf helped our relationship grow and made us stronger together. So I guess it all happened for the best! It must have been hard moving so much. I moved in the beginning of middle school and had such a hard time with it. I couldn't imagine doing it over and over. Yeah, school systems suck. The AP tests kinda screwed me. I took AP Lit and got my undergrad English credits from that. But a lot of med schools don't want AP credits, so now I have to retake the English BTW, what's it like it Alaska?
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Post by katt on Dec 6, 2010 6:49:07 GMT -5
Yaay! That is good that they ate the chunks. If they are eating them, I would continue getting them to eat a few chunks each day and it should become easier as we go and they realize that it is actually food and not poison disguised as food. haha For the soup, try adding in just a little freeze dried raw and see if that helps them eat it on their own. See if you can find the minimum amount of freeze dried raw you can put in, but still have them eat it of their own will. To get Pixie to tolerate being scruffed a little better, you could try giving her a few licks of olive oil each day in a scruff. Hopefully she will begin to associate it with treats. Just let her lick it off your fingers, and as she eats it. scruff her a little without actually picking her up. Then scruff her and offer her oil in the partial scruff, and just move up to a full scruff and treat. It may or may not work, but I think if you stick with it she will improve. You should PM me your shipping address. I will send you something that will help to get them eating bones. And living in Alaska is nice. The people are great, the weather SUCKS though. haha Waaay too cold for my liking, but it is the one place I consider Home. And when you change schools every year just about, you get pretty used to it. haha I went to 11 schools by the time I graduated, including 4 high schools. I hated it. I was really shy so for years I had no friends - I was literally afraid to talk to people my age. I preferred adults. I grew up pretty quickly, for many reasons, but the moving being one. Later I came out of my shell and became a little... too social. I like to think that now I have found a good balance. Keep me updated on tomorrow's soup and chunks!
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Post by katt on Dec 9, 2010 6:27:27 GMT -5
Just a little bump. Any progress, updates, questions?
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Post by katt on Dec 11, 2010 12:06:19 GMT -5
*bump*
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Post by Jackie on Dec 11, 2010 20:02:05 GMT -5
Hello! Sorry for disappearing for a couple days. School's finally out, so I have some free time.
So I've been feeding a raw soup of about 60% chicken, 40% freeze dried. Today I tried jut raw chicken with some liver, pumpkin, egg shell, and taurine and both girls ate it. I started out feeding Pixie on anspoon, but she then decided it was yummy and ate on her own. She ate a couple chunks on chicken fat. Yay! Trixie also ate a large piece of chicken fat, so tomorrow I'm going to try some chicken slivers mixed in. Hopefully they will at least try them.
Also, how many oz of liver should they get a day? All of the freeze dried as liver in it, so I don't want to overfeed it.
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Post by katt on Dec 13, 2010 6:15:36 GMT -5
Hey sorry I'm having some computer issues. I'm using my phone but it is hard to type on. That is great they are eating the soup! just keep decreasing the amount of freeze dried and increasing the raw each day. Also, to help work them into the texture of chunky soup, you can increase the thickness of the soup too. If they are accepting chunks great! Keep offering them each day and slowly make them bigger. For the liver there are a few approaches. You can feed a larger amount every few days and none other days, or a very small amount every day. However you do it though the organ meat should be about 10% of the diet. I would assume the freeze dried is balanced and just keep the liver to ten percent of the raw portion. Hen when you start to feed a meal of each, each of the raw and freeze dried portions will be balanced. I hope I'm making sense haha it has been a long day. Let me know if I'm rambling or jumblin nonsense. keep asking questions and keep me updated! sorry for the delayed response
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Post by Jackie on Dec 14, 2010 23:30:28 GMT -5
Yep, that makes perfect sense!
So update for today: My blender broke this morning so I just gave them their normal freeze dried meal. I also got some ground beef that I added into the mix and they didn't seem to mind. I think I got it working again so tomorrow for breakfast they will get some chicken breast (out of legs).
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Post by Jackie on Dec 14, 2010 23:31:59 GMT -5
You should PM me your shipping address. I will send you something that will help to get them eating bones. Aw, that's very nice of you. I don't really have any money at the moment to compensate you for the item & shipping, but I appreciate the offer! I'm planning on updating my girls cage in a month or 2 (or 3 ), so I'm in saving mode!
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Post by katt on Dec 15, 2010 0:38:10 GMT -5
You should PM me your shipping address. I will send you something that will help to get them eating bones. Aw, that's very nice of you. I don't really have any money at the moment to compensate you for the item & shipping, but I appreciate the offer! I'm planning on updating my girls cage in a month or 2 (or 3 ), so I'm in saving mode! I didn't say that you would need to compensate me, now did I? I can get Ulus for less than $3 here, and they are small enough that shipping - gotta love flat rate shipping! - will be very inexpensive as well. We're talking like less than $10 total! haha It is GREAT for chopping and pulverizing bones to make the marrow more available and entice ferrets to eat the bones. I would be lost without mine. Consider it a Christmas gift, it really costs almost nothing at all. If they are eating the ground beef mixed with the freeze dried, then perhaps you could try some small beef chunks mixed in. How are they doing with the chicken chunks, or is that on hold due to your blender? Btw - if you are looking for a new blender, the Magic Bullet Blender is super great - I LOVE mine! They are kind of spendy though so I don't know if you'd want to get one just now if you are saving for a cage...
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