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Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 22, 2010 12:57:54 GMT -5
The Duck, Duck Goose is good as well. It is poultry, but Koda may be able to handle it. Atay on the lamb (and meeces) for a couple of weeks just to see if we can get Koda stabilized. If we can stabilize him without pred. That would be SWEET. There's one type of IBD that some vets are beginning to believe is mostly (if not all) food allergy. It's called Eosinophilic Gastroenteritis.
Once we stabilize Koda, we can try introducing some other foods - SLOWLY.
Another thing that IBD ferts seem to appreciate is "homogenized' food - specifically, ground food mixes with organ/bone mixed in evenly works better than discreet chunks of meat, bone, organ.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Oct 22, 2010 15:21:54 GMT -5
Well I don't have anything to grind bones haha and I personally feel that he NEEDS bones to crunch on. With his ridiculous oral fixation, I don't dare take the one thing he CAN chew out of his diet!
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Post by katt on Oct 22, 2010 20:08:19 GMT -5
Time to go look at meats! Update to come later!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 22, 2010 22:24:01 GMT -5
It'd definitely better f he has some RMB/franken-prey/whole prey along with along with the ground diet. But if the smaller bones (chicke/turkey neck) triggers a major IBD attack, he's better off with you cleaning his teeth. Lik I said we'll be working on Koda's diet for quite a while to get good variety and all the necesary stuff into his gut. Once Koda is stabilized, he may be able to eat some of the things that were bugging him previously. He may need to eat these items in smaller quantity and he may ned to eat them less often. This will depend on wheher he is sensitive to the food or if he has a true allergy (systemic immune response). We will NEED to be VERY careful giving him some items that bothered him previously when we try them again. If Koda has a TRUE allergy and has been away from the trigger for a while, he could possibly have a severe reaction to the allergen when he gets exposed to it again. Here is how allergie sometimes work....You are not allergic to something, but if you get a lot of exposure to something, you develop an allergy to it. You feel crappy and have wierd symptoms, but you continue to get exposed to the allergen because you don't expet it's an issue. What you'r doing a this point is equivalent to taking allergy shots....you're allergic to something, but getting small does allows you to develop ome tolerance to the allergen. This is why people with hay fever in the fall take allergy shots all year round. If you remove the allergen completely, the tolerance fades. When you get exposed to the allergen after being away from ift for while, the reaction that you get can be severe. There's also the type of allergy that flare only with over exposure to something....in other words, Koda may be able to have a small chiken meal once a week without any trouble at all. His poop may be a little off , but leaving him some freeze-dried lamb treats and feeding him mice for his next meal may work out jut fine. But two meals of chicken in a row may be too much. We DO want to rotate. The bad part about sensitivities is that over exposure to any one thng may result in developing an allergy to that item. I've outlined some of the most pain-in-the-butt scenarios above. Hopefully, Koda will be a little easier to deal with. AND - we still don't know for sure his issue is really allergy (although it's looking like it may be at least part of the problem.) Once we get Koda stabilized with about 4 foods, I want to start him on some Transfer factors (TF). In particular, the Stress Pack seems to help quite a few ferrets with GI issues. The Tansfer Factors he to 'reprogram" the immune system. (i.e., it's similar to colostrunm and hyper-immune egg. the TF sems to work well on ferts. I'm leery of using bovine colostrum or hyper immune egg with ferrets because the eggs are chicken eggs and I'm not sure the colostrum has enough lactase to dal with any lactose that may bein the colostrum. For those who may be reading this (and have not fallen asleep)... colostrum is the special milk produced during the first 48(?) hours after giving birth. Ths colostrum passes a lot of mmunities to the offspring, so it sets up the immunities in the babies. The hyper-immune egg is produced when hens are exposed to all sorts of thngs that result in the developemnt of extra anti-bodies, etc. Thesethat have all this trong immune system stuff going on pass the strong immunities into the eggs. The egg contains all the necessary immune system programming similar to the colostrum. I don't know the origins of transfer factors, but the chicken egg and the milk are more likely to be problematic to ferts. I used TF on one of my first two ferrets for his IBD, and his IBD remained milder with fewwer upsets once we started him on the TF. I'm currently working with my vet on behalf of one of his clients that I know from work. My vet does the vet thing and I do the dietary thing aong with the non-allopathic remedies. We're getting some really good results with the TF and the non-allopathic supplements once the allopathic medicine have done their thing. Again -if you're skimming this post, TF is transfer Factors (Not Totally Ferret ) One thng to kep inmine abou allthis is that IBD may seem tobe relatively "benign". But her is the bottom line on how impotant the gut really is to overall well-being. Did you know that approx. 75-90% of the immune system is centered around the gut??? if you think about it, the gut habor a LOT of bacteria, both good and bad. SO it makes sense that the lymph nodes/immune sytems/systemic cleansing parts of the bodyy (blood/lymph systems are highly concentarted around the the digestive tract. This helps us remain healthy by protecting us from all the uglies in our guts. That being said, we need to work hard to keep our guts in good working order! -jennifer
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Post by katt on Oct 22, 2010 22:37:35 GMT -5
Soo...I have some really good news. I went to this little store called Paw Prince that was on Stella and Chewey's website. They were all out of S&C but they are ordering more in a week or 2 and the lady told me she'd order some of the frozen lamb. BUT they DID have frozen ground lamb (meat only), frozen raw lamb bones, AND ground rabbit (ground rabbit meat, bone, and liver)!!!! The rabbit and lamb are from a local company about an hour or two out of town. And they had dried rabbit ears. Then I went to the Asian market again and this time managed to find pork liver heart and kidney! Before they ONLY had kidney. So I got 4 lamb bones (about 3-4" each), a big thing of ground rabbit, rabbit ears, pork liver, 2 things of pork heart, and pork kidneys ALL for less than $20!!!! Yaaay!
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2010 0:16:07 GMT -5
I will give him more ground lamb tonight. He had some good poops in his box from last night, and a mediocre good and bad poop, but then we got to Shane's and he pooped again and it was yucky, but not terrible. I am going to add some pumpkin to the raw tonight...
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Post by Heather on Oct 23, 2010 8:48:51 GMT -5
Sounds like you're doing well at the moment. I got to realize that Ghenghis' poopies changed throughout the day. What I aimed for was that he didn't have several horrible poops in a row. I realized at that point that something was going south. If I through a day with only one or two, that was good. Stress levels vary during the day, even rough play can be stressful. They enjoy it but it puts stress on the body and makes them think, that's stressful...good stress but stress just the same. It affects the IBD kids. Diet is a big portion but stress levels are a factor too, and there's not much you can do about those. ciao
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Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 23, 2010 10:25:32 GMT -5
One thing you may want to try is giving Koda a little Rescue Remedy the first night he goes to shane's house.
It might help a ltltle it. Be sure Koda has a dark/safe den in his cage at Shane's house as well. It's not that Koda feels threatened at Shanes, but he needs a retreat so he can calm down from all the excitement.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2010 10:47:55 GMT -5
One thing you may want to try is giving Koda a little Rescue Remedy the first night he goes to shane's house. It might help a ltltle it. Be sure Koda has a dark/safe den in his cage at Shane's house as well. It's not that Koda feels threatened at Shanes, but he needs a retreat so he can calm down from all the excitement. -jennifer Well we go to Shane's house several times a week and are usually there for several hours. It's our second home lol but I think the traveling process might stress him out? Should I give him some Rescue Remedy before we get in the car each time?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 23, 2010 13:40:06 GMT -5
I'd give him the rescue remedy before he goes in the car for the first time in the day. If you leave a couple hours later, I would not give it to him a second time.
I also would not give it to him before he goes to the vet in case he gets blood work or meds, or whatever.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2010 13:52:20 GMT -5
I'd give him the rescue remedy before he goes in the car for the first time in the day. If you leave a couple hours later, I would not give it to him a second time. I also would not give it to him before he goes to the vet in case he gets blood work or meds, or whatever. -jennifer How many hours is a few? Here is a typical day... I get up around 6-9 am (depending on my work.class schedule for the day, usually around 7:30-8) and give him some food for the day and leave. I get back home at either 2/3ish, or closer to 5 (again, dep on class and work). I eat lunch or dinner so he usually stays in his cage, then comes out after that and is out until dinner (unless he misbehaves too much when I am studying for a test), and then out again after dinner until bedtime around 11:00pm-1:00 am (I have a really regular schedule can't you tell? : . On the days that we go to Shane's, I get home at 2-5 again, and wake him up to give him a chance to eat and potty while I shower or grab my stuff or whatever. Then I put him in his carrier ( www.simplypetsupplies.com/pd-marshall-pet-front-pack-carrier-for-small-pets-fleece.cfm?utm_source=TheFind&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=TheFind) and the carrier in a bag. I wish I could carry him in a kennel as it would be less stressful for him, but since he's not allowed in the apartment, I have to hide him to get to my car. Once in the car, he goes in the kennel and we drive to Shane's (10-20 min drive dep on traffic, usually about 15). Once there, we let him out for about 5 minutes, then cage him in his little cage while we go eat. When we get done, he is out for the rest of the night (caged for dinner if we eat again then let back out). We are usually at Shane's from about 4/5:00-11:00/midnight. On the way home, he goes in his carrier (not kennel) and sleeps in the carrier in my lap on the way home. Then carrier goes back in the bag, and Koda and I go back inside and tuck in for bed (he gets snuggles and more food). So should I give him some before the car ride both ways? How much should I give him? Do I need to worry about giving him too much over time and having him build a resistance to it?
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Post by Heather on Oct 23, 2010 15:13:54 GMT -5
Rescue remedy is a Bach flower remedy. I don't think you can legitimately give too much, it's along the line that more isn't better it just gets expensive I would only give it on the way out, not back but that's just me. I find them a lot less wound up on the way back. Think of little children....they get all wound up when you're going to take them places but they've mellowed out a lot by the time they come back. There is different ways to give Rescue remedy too. You can rub a drop or two in the ear or on their nose or you can put drops in their drinking water. If I know it's going to be a stressful day (like going to an art show) then I will mix it up in the days water. They have it all day. Mine calls for 10 drops in water, I noticed others their bottle tells them 5 drops. Depends on the concentration I think. Don't look at it as medicine per say....it's closer to a homeopathic....trace elements. I use it all the time for stress situations, from everything from a trip to the vet, death of a pal to newbies to the house or for little ones that come here to spend a couple of days. ciao
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2010 15:30:24 GMT -5
Rescue remedy is a Bach flower remedy. I don't think you can legitimately give too much, it's along the line that more isn't better it just gets expensive I would only give it on the way out, not back but that's just me. I find them a lot less wound up on the way back. Think of little children....they get all wound up when you're going to take them places but they've mellowed out a lot by the time they come back. There is different ways to give Rescue remedy too. You can rub a drop or two in the ear or on their nose or you can put drops in their drinking water. If I know it's going to be a stressful day (like going to an art show) then I will mix it up in the days water. They have it all day. Mine calls for 10 drops in water, I noticed others their bottle tells them 5 drops. Depends on the concentration I think. Don't look at it as medicine per say....it's closer to a homeopathic....trace elements. I use it all the time for stress situations, from everything from a trip to the vet, death of a pal to newbies to the house or for little ones that come here to spend a couple of days. ciao What do you find to be more effective, the ears or the nose? Also, the store I went to yesterday had some RR pastilles for humans...thoughts?
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Post by Heather on Oct 23, 2010 16:35:59 GMT -5
Either or....it doesn't really matter. Both works. As far as the human stuff I've taken a few drops under the tongue of the same stuff I give the ferret ciao
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Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 23, 2010 17:36:07 GMT -5
DO NOT give ferrets the pastilles - I looked them up and they say "sugar free". Sure enough it contains xylitol or whatever that artificial sweetener is that has killed ferrets. Anything that is labeled "sugar free" probably has aspartame/xylitol/etc. BAD stuff - possibly lethal to pets. Rescue Remedy is controversial in that MANY swear by it, but scientific studies claim it's more of a placebo since the studies cannot demonstrate that it "works". That being said, 4 drops always worked for my stress boy...it made him sleep. Rescue Remedy is 27% alcohol. This is why I recommend giving it only once per day. There are some alcohol-free versions, but I've never seen them. I'm sure this is what Heather is using, which is why she says it's OK to more. You'll nt to make sure you use the non-alcohol rescue remedy if you plan to give it more than once. (Quite a few people give the regular booze-version to their ferrets without any issues. 4 drops is not as bad as the time Tomichi crammed her face in my husband's martini and sucked down 2 big slurps of 90-proof gin before we could get to her . It didn't bother her, but I was kind of freaked out at her sucking down 90-proof gin with a tiny amount of vermouth and a bit of water from being shaken over ice. More info: shop.robbinspetcare.com/rescue-remedy-liquid-drops-10ml.html?dogs/rescueremedy.html (scroll down to see inactive ingredients - Booze) -jennifer
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